the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Ren Zhongxin student of Li Jingwu among others doing a little sparring with a young Sanda lad.

Nice find! Highly unusual to see one of the old boys sparring against one of the young lads (who was playing a very respectful game); instructive. Good to see the Ren has it

OTOH, I am a bit surprised that Ren did not move his feet more, which makes me wonder if he - like most of the older generation of masters - has only been playing PH and doing "applications" for 2+ decades, and so is unused to free fighting...?

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Andy_S wrote:Nice find! Highly unusual to see one of the old boys sparring against one of the young lads (who was playing a very respectful game); instructive. Good to see the Ren has it

OTOH, I am a bit surprised that Ren did not move his feet more, which makes me wonder if he - like most of the older generation of masters - has only been playing PH and doing "applications" for 2+ decades, and so is unused to free fighting...?

Anyway, thanks for posting.

ime, its not so unusual, the old guys want the students or people they'er working with to feel their work. For the most part it's live with the caveat its understood that the
teacher is not trying to hurt the other person.

regarding the non stepping, imo, it depends. In ph settings many do step, lacking the skills of not having to step.
in engagements out side of push hands, at some point the other has to close to engage.
in this case the teacher could probably put the student down quite easily with one movement.
There would be little point in doing so, the student wouldn't learn much, the teacher would not be able to show or help him find
the right movement and timing to use it.

unused to free fighting...?

maybe its the other way around, peoples view points of fighting seems to allow them
the idea of tapping out, throwing in the towel, or waiting for the bell.
in the clip, the idea being shown is from point of contact, what to do with it, how to neutralize it
or return it. there should be no possibility of a real exchange.





agree nice clip

I hear what you are saying WW, what gives me pause to question, is the dead weight of the arms afyet he completes his technique, there , IMO , should be more liveliness in his movement.OTOH he's probably just lazing through with the kid anyway.

You can brush off punches and kicks like that from a guy smaller and lighter than you, but if that guy was bigger none of that would have worked as shown. Just my opinion!

GrahamB wrote:You can brush off punches and kicks like that from a guy smaller and lighter than you, but if that guy was bigger none of that would have worked as shown. Just my opinion!

If there was another opponent, different size or speed, it would have looked different and he would have done other things. So, what's the probs?

Bao wrote:

GrahamB wrote:You can brush off punches and kicks like that from a guy smaller and lighter than you, but if that guy was bigger none of that would have worked as shown. Just my opinion!

If there was another opponent, different size or speed, it would have looked different and he would have done other things. So, what's the probs?

It's like Marcelo garcia and triangles. Apparently he became obsessed with this technique and did them all the time. Unfortunately he discovered that when fighting people bigger than him they could bust their way out of them, so he just stopped doing them and decided his time was better spent on mastering techniques that would work for him against all sizes of opponent.

GrahamB wrote:It's like Marcelo garcia and triangles. Apparently he became obsessed with this technique and did them all the time. Unfortunately he discovered that when fighting people bigger than him they could bust their way out of them, so he just stopped doing them and decided his time was better spent on mastering techniques that would work for him against all sizes of opponent.

How do you know that this teacher doesn't know how to handle bigger opponents?

Graham and BJJ, is like the chick who found her first guy with a big package and she just can't get enough. She thinks she's in love but she sooner finds out, there's more to love than just getting packed and pounded.

[quote="Bao"][quote="GrahamB"]It's like Marcelo garcia and triangles. Apparently he became obsessed with this technique and did them all the time. Unfortunately he discovered that when fighting people bigger than him they could bust their way out of them, so he just stopped doing them and decided his time was better spent on mastering techniques that would work for him against all sizes of opponent.[/quote]

How do you know that this teacher doesn't know how to handle bigger opponents? [/quote]

I don't, but I didn't say he doesn't, just that I don't see the point of doing stuff that won't work on bigger people. Just my personal opinion.

Jeez you internal guys are so touchy, aren't you? Must be all that 'relaxation'...

Wanderingdragon wrote:Graham and BJJ, is like the chick who found her first guy with a big package and she just can't get enough. She thinks she's in love but she sooner finds out, there's more to love than just getting packed and pounded.

I preferred it when you stuck to your usual fortune cookie nonsense, not sexual metaphor.

You're right, I was outta line, apologies.

The other problem I have with the clip. Though as has been mentioned the student is showing high respect, he is only and intentionally striking outside of his arms, making not even controlled attempts to get I to the old guys center. As a master, IMO, the old should be prepared and able to demo control of any surprise.

IMO, the old master has superior structure and control compared to the young sanda guy, but it is also glaringly obvious that he is a push-hand player rather than free-fighter.

One of the major flaws often observed in practitioners who focus too much on push-hand -- or other types of similar training methods which begin by joining arms (e.g. chi-sao, rou-shou, etc) -- is that they are unaccustomed to dealing with fast, random strikes coming at a distance from a moving opponent.

If the sanda guy hadn't pull his punches and kicks, I believe the clip might have turned out quite differently and exemplified the old CMA adage: "a barrage of wild punches can kill an old master." (亂拳打死老師父)

nuf just one, like back circular kick from the vid. , !