Yang Long form

[XiaoXiong]

[XiaoXiong]

[XiaoXiong]

I am taking up the study of this form. Any good references or ideas are welcome.
Jess

[charles]

I am taking up the study of this form. Any good references or ideas are welcome.
Jess

There are many sequences of choreography ("forms"). None are inherently good or bad. Ideally, the forms are a vehicle for learning the physical mechanics, physical implementation of the principles of the style and strategy of the style. Unfortunately, as forms are usually taught, they are simply a sequence of choreography. My suggestion is to find someone who teaches beyond the choreography, regardless of the particular sequence he or she teaches. Put another way, I suggest you pursue skills and abilities rather than specific forms or styles.

[XiaoXiong]

Without innumerating the things I've been doing, I'll just say, I have a mentor who is highly skilled who encouraged me to learn this form who is going to be helping with the details. I got this thing under control as far as how I'm going to approach my learning, I just want good resources for reference to the form. I think Master Xie is awesome. Lucky to have him still teaching.
Jess

[Andy_S]

Beautiful rendition of form by Xie - "one moves, everything moves," expand-contract along the line of force, etc, etc.

Tom:

Does Xie teach both Wu and Yang as separate entities, or did he combine his learnings into one form? Is he just a form guy, or are his two-man practices solid?

[charles]

Without innumerating the things I've been doing, I'll just say, I have a mentor who is highly skilled who encouraged me to learn this form who is going to be helping with the details. I got this thing under control as far as how I'm going to approach my learning, I just want good resources for reference to the form.
Jess

In which case, I don't know what you are asking. If your highly skilled mentor is going to help you with the details, what is it you are looking for? A video from which to learn the gross choreography? Seems you already have one from each of two well-respected practitioners.

Why did he encourage you to learn this form? What did he expect you would derive from doing so?

[Bob]

Many years back I had about a year's experience in this line/form and have much respect for its practitioners. In many ways I wish that I would have limited myself to learning this system and nothing more - it was my original preference. So much "red dust" in the martial arts. However, once you go down the baji/bagua rabbit hole there is no turning back and although the clip below has been posted previously I find great inspiration in and from the movements of the practitioner. Music is nice too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooL4Ej4utWw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9IBoge0VG0

[neijia_boxer]

Many years back I had about a year's experience in this line/form and have much respect for its practitioners. Although the clip below has been posted previously I find great inspiration in and from the movements of the practitioner. Music is nice too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooL4Ej4utWw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9IBoge0VG0

@Bob: who is that doing Taiji?

@Jess:
In regards to the Yang Long form, you are doing probably the more authentic Yang form one going with FZW's/Xie's version. I spent many years back in early 90's in RVA training with disciples Xu Jen heng and Weiqi He (USA branch of Yongnian Taiji Association) and in Shanghai learning from FZW, son, and grandson. One of the best things FZW wanted was people to do the Long form 3x in a row at 20 min. each so you get a solid 1 hour practice daily.

I recently did a interview with his son Fu Sheng Yuan here:
http://polariswushu.net/blog/2014/09/19 ... n-bramich/

Damon Bramich does all the Yongnian and Yang videos for Fu sheng Yuan/Yongnian association so I would say def study all the videos he shares here:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCah5BsYp5rDJhIld3YGspYg

Charles nailed in when he said look to pursue skills and abilities. For instance Cheng Man ching people do a short form, yet many have good push hands. So I agree that form is just a template
or as charles said, " vehicle for learning the physical mechanics, physical implementation of the principles of the style and strategy of the style."

I myself think that going out and meeting many Yang people is a good thing, and see what methods and skills they have. I have explored what Yang Zhen Jie details (very different than what his younger brother Yang Zhen Dou does, including da shou), and been to places that have done Yang zhen Dou and even Yang Jun versions. I've studied details of what they do and have been a member of Yang Family Association since 2003. Even doing the rankings with them for "shits and giggles". I prefer however when doing it on my own, to do it more towards how I learned from FZW since I had done it that way the longest. What I probably need to do is work with you and Jeff in the park more or have ya'll over (since baby is here now).

[Bao]

Any good references or ideas are welcome

"Art is just the search, not the final form" -Gary Busey.

Nah, actually this was said by the actor-director Yevgeny Vakhtangov and something frequently quoted by Stanislavsky.

"The process of creating a performance is not like laying bricks ... To get to this position is not just a question of doing all the right things in a set order."

There are many things in tai chi that is very hard to teach and takes a very long time to grasp. A form is just like an empty bag. You fill it with goodies as you understand and grasp more and more things. How good you get, the outer shape is never the final form and the substance is always changing....

[XiaoXiong]

Without innumerating the things I've been doing, I'll just say, I have a mentor who is highly skilled who encouraged me to learn this form who is going to be helping with the details. I got this thing under control as far as how I'm going to approach my learning, I just want good resources for reference to the form.
Jess

In which case, I don't know what you are asking. If your highly skilled mentor is going to help you with the details, what is it you are looking for? A video from which to learn the gross choreography? Seems you already have one from each of two well-respected practitioners.

Why did he encourage you to learn this form? What did he expect you would derive from doing so?

Well, as I stated I am looking for reference... Not just for gross choreography, but for correct movement. Yes I have two videos... I tend to try to immerse myself in things I am learning, so I am seeking more reference material. I don't think this should be difficult to understand. I think that my mentor wants me to learn the form so that he can teach me how to practice it and do more cool taiji stuff.

@Matt, I'd be down to come hang out with you. I have to disagree about CMC people having good ph. I find them to be terrible for the most part. Very stiff, and muscled, and not the kind of skills I am looking for. Glad the baby's doing better. Best wishes.
Jess

[Bao]

.Not just for gross choreography, but for correct movement.

Correct movement comes from understanding practical function and application. It must be felt and practiced, not intellectualized.

[XiaoXiong]

I think feeling and practicing and researching and understanding from the scientific perspective are all valid approaches. For me I try to practice with high quality. If you practice wrong for any amount if time it is a waste. I use my intellect to discern what is correct and isn't. Getting the best examples of this form for reference is part of the process.

Please guys spare me the lectures. I practice a lot. I only found that I wanted to do this taiji by feeling what it is capable of. I don't really need the standard newbie lectures. I know what I'm doing when it comes to how I approach my training and learning. I have found a great mentor... I just want some good videos of the form for reference.
Jess

[yeniseri]

A Long Form is a Long Form is along Form so as long as you find someone to teach it 'beyond choreography" (with neigong and some martial utility, if that is your goal) then after that you see stuff that does not match your goals, you can change the form in conjunction with what your 'sensibilities' dictate providing yoru 'internal mechanism' finds a source that connects to what you feel! If you find a reasonable teacher, then anyone can be your teacher then refine over the years.

Form is easy to copy but if it is empty then it is useless. When I was exposed to Chang Tungsheng variation of Yang taijiquan, I found it odd but a few time I practiced I, somehow incorporated those elements that appeared during my own long form exposition so I ended up keeping them because it meshed, through entrainment (training/conditioning/neigong stuff???) and the rest is history.

[Bob]

For this particular line you might also find the translation by Barbara Davis useful:


The Taijiquan Classics: An Annotated Translation

Paperback – February 5, 2004

by Barbara Davis (Author), Chen Wei-Ming (Commentary)

Along with Chinese art, medicine, and philosophy, taijiquan has left the confines of its original culture, and offers health, relaxation, and a method of self-defense to people around the globe. Using the early texts now known as The Taijiquan Classics which have served as a touchstone for t’ai chi practitioners for 150 years, this book explores the fundamental ideas and what they mean to practitioners, students, and scholars. It also incorporates newly discovered sources that address the history of taijiquan and newly translated commentaries by Chen Weiming.

http://www.amazon.com/Taijiquan-Classic ... +Taijiquan