Yang Long form

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Re: Yang Long form

Postby Bao on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:26 am

XiaoXiong wrote:Please guys spare me the lectures. I practice a lot. I only found that I wanted to do this taiji by feeling what it is capable of. I don't really need the standard newbie lectures


Remember that this is an open forum so many people write in a general and not personal manner.. Most people reading it are newbies.

But if you want a more advanced advice... practice the whole long form a few times in a row in as low stance as you can, the closer you can keep the knees in an angle of 90 degrees the better. Very nice strengthening exercise and something I appreciate more now as I am getting older. But you really need someone to show you so you don't make knee killing mistakes...
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby Bob on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:57 am

Our methodology of teaching yang style taijiquan regardless of line, is to teach basic single moving exercises so as to not compound errors when doing the long form.

Often times, chaining is a good way to learn - learn one moving postures then two moving postures - link - then and play as one unit -then added 3rd moving posture - link and play as one movement.

First thing I learned in the line you posted was the cat walk and not to rock back on your knee/leg. Did that up and down a yard for a bit before an actual moving posture was taught. Also some static postures for upper body alignment can be used.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby Ciccio on Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:10 pm

Ciao,


This IMHO,

A clips are good performance long yang form, BUT, if think is more important the mind Instead how low I can do the form.

This is an example from 2,05, as it must be the mind

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OA2EnemzBpk

I can have an empty mind for 2 hours?
I think this is the hard work then i can do the form low . IMHO

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Re: Yang Long form

Postby Bao on Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:38 pm

Ciccio wrote:I can have an empty mind for 2 hours?
I think this is the hard work then i can do the form low . IMHO


Not all can understand what it means to empty the mind. But anyone can practice leg strength. You can always practice the physical aspects, but successful practicing of an empty mind is mostly for people who have no economical or personal problems, which leaves most people out of the equation. Many people have a life as well, not only tai chi.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby willywrong on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:58 pm

Tom wrote:I actually like Xie Bingcan's rendition of Yang Chengfu's long form better than that of Fu Shengyuan (Fu Zhongwen's son). I studied an abbreviated version of the Wu style taolu with Xie many years ago (he trained with Ma Yuehliang and Wu Yinghua). Even with language limitations, Xie was a good, hands-on teacher and the form instruction was clear. His tuishou was solid--real and subtle skills there. He's in his mid-80s now, but you can find him teaching on Saturday afternoons at a Seattle-area Shotokan karate dojo.

I would recommend enriching your study with Louis Swaim's translation of Fu Zhongwen's book:

Image

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Yang-Style-Taijiquan-Zhongwen/dp/1583941525/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412211448&sr=1-1&keywords=louis+swaim

As far as the practice of the solo form itself, you'll notice in forward sequences like Zuoyou Lōuxī Àobù that the forward foot is turned out with the weight on the forward leg as you step forward (instead of rocking back slightly and then turning the forward foot out, as is often taught). This can be done safely and makes a difference in forward energy and intent.


This is an incredibly detailed book to read but if I remember correctly, he doubles up on the use of photos in it to describe two different postures. :)
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby willywrong on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:09 pm

Jess[/quote]
@Matt, I'd be down to come hang out with you. I have to disagree about CMC people having good ph. I find them to be terrible for the most part. Very stiff, and muscled, and not the kind of skills I am looking for. Glad the baby's doing better. Best wishes.
Jess[/quote]

This guy is Cheng Man Ching linage Jess. :)

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php? ... &sk=t&sd=a
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby XiaoXiong on Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:12 am

Ok. Are you one of the people in the video referenced? Are you from Huang Xing Xiang's lineage? His students and Dr Tao are the best CMC I've seen on video. Around here there are quite a few Senior students of Ben Lo, and Robert Smith. That has been my sample of CMC style in the first person. I think Huang was probably really good and some of his students seem to be pretty good too. I just don't like a lot of the things in the way I see people practicing and in the reputation of Cheng and others in his line. It's not for me.
Jess
Last edited by XiaoXiong on Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby XiaoXiong on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:00 am

Oh and I didn't care for the style of play in the video, though the skills in display were fine.
Jess
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby daniel pfister on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:08 pm

Other than the Xie or Fu versions (which are good too) I'm partial to Yang Shouzhong's eventhough the video is crappy:

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Re: Yang Long form

Postby XiaoXiong on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:18 pm

Thx for that.
Jess
Last edited by XiaoXiong on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby flints on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:33 pm

I was lucky enough to meet Master Xie on two occasions. He is an amazing martial artist with real internal power though he is past 80 (someone said). My impression is that he insists on correct movement, that the position of the body and limbs, their direction and rotation is all very significant to successful use of internal power. I know others that disagree with that. They believe that internal power is something you cultivate through certain practices and the form is a series of suggestions as to how the power can be manifested -- with internal movements having a many to one relationship to external postures; however, "correct movement" is somewhat chimerical because fighting does not give you option of correct movement whereas principles can always be used even in a disadvantaged position. I tend to be in the latter group, but there are definitely folks in the former who kick my ass. So there you go.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby nicklinjm on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:09 pm

On CMC people's pushing skills, I wouldn't write them off based on US based practitioners. I have pushed with people in the Malaysian CMC lines (coming to us through NIgel Sutton's Zhong Ding association in the UK), and found them to be soft, with very good listening skills and also some decent peng. Fajin, not so much.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby willywrong on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:04 am

XiaoXiong wrote:Ok. Are you one of the people in the video referenced? Are you from Huang Xing Xiang's lineage? His students and Dr Tao are the best CMC I've seen on video. Around here there are quite a few Senior students of Ben Lo, and Robert Smith. That has been my sample of CMC style in the first person. I think Huang was probably really good and some of his students seem to be pretty good too. I just don't like a lot of the things in the way I see people practicing and in the reputation of Cheng and others in his line. It's not for me.
Jess


Oh and I didn't care for the style of play in the video, though the skills in display were fine.
Jess

Yes I am one of the people in the video on the other person is Darren Cox. This video was taken about 12 years ago for in-house instruction not really for public viewing. This school also broken away from our lineage and created their own school, mainly because I wasn't happy with them not been prepared to up their standard. Also, the Fitzgerald Hartley connection as classmates is not true. John Hartley was a younger student training with my Sifu after me, but we never trained in the same class. He also never learnt the Wu style TaiChi from Sifu (Cheng tin hung lineage). Here's the link to Darren: http://www.australiantaichi.com/article ... neage.html Although John Hartley did learn Thai keik from me.

Here are some links to my lineage: http://zhong-ding.com/index.php/article ... -ding.com/…/16-iron-shirt-skill-shaking-the-wor… The two articles are halfway down the page Nigel changed his format. I'm also not zhong-ding.
http://actfundamentaltaichi.com/ Go to the Thai keik link at the top of the page.

I am not of the Huang Xing Xiang's lineage or Dr Tao.

As for your thoughts on our style of play. I somehow doubt that you'd actually understand the skills in play.
All I see you doing here is putting forward a question so you can then tell everybody how they haven't got whatever it is you want. Your basic fallacy is without haven't arrived at your destination, you presume to know what it is. Your cup runneth over young Jess. To put it in the Australian vernacular. I just have to tell you in all sincerity, I believe you actually don't know shit from clay. ::)

Have a little trouble the links sorry. This also goes to show what a load of crap. Lineage can really be. :)
Last edited by willywrong on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby XiaoXiong on Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:41 am

That's nice. Can we get somewhere near on topic again?
Jess
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Re: Yang Long form

Postby windwalker on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:29 pm

cerebus wrote:
XiaoXiong wrote:The key here is the word good. As in real taiji, as in soft and still.
Jess


Your experience with the CMC Tai Chi seems to be the exact opposite of my own. Never have I found any Tai Chi which was softer or more in accord with the Tai Chi principles. Just by the simple difference in body mechanics, the Yang family style will automatically be less relaxed and have more tension in both form and push hands. No other form of Tai Chi seems to have taken the Tai Chi Classics as literally and taken rooting, relaxation and correct body mechanics to such a highly refined level as Professor Cheng's, but that's just my own experience.


in my own experience with the CMC and yang forms, they both seem to use different ideas then many of the things "jess" has talked about and what I work
with now that seems to be quite similar to what he has mentioned. they dont use intention in the same way, again from my experience.

soft is relative, its more then just being soft, imo it really depends on the timing and use of intention.

I cant see the clip in question from here.

cmc in of his books answered a question posed by I believe Robert Smiths wife she asked "what was that feeling I just felt before being pushed" CMC replied something to the effect that it was his intention that she felt, and that others would feel it to had they been fansong enough.
as it was he never seemed to follow up on this idea, at lest to my knowledge he never took it to its conclusion although some of his later students seem to have.
some of what is perceived as softness is the ability to offer no reflection that the intent can return from. the body seeking this will tend to keep trying to find it.

as "jess" mentioned stillness in movement, movement in stillness. the intent itself must be able to move through ones own body, the body must be able to sense and follow this.
never both being in the same place at the same time.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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