Why TMA Punch to Chest

[Andy_S]

Interesting idea: Because one can then practice safely, but with reasonable force, at the correct range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZoCyqjbok

[chenyaolong]

My Shifu in Yantai had similar ideas. We would train techniques making contact with the chest, but Shifu explained them as "in application its better to do this to the face".

PS, Andy, I sent you a PM and an email regarding Maekgoli in Insadong.

[wuwei]

There are also some very solid reasons why you want to punch at chest level

[GrahamB]

5 point exploding heart technique.

[Bo Fei Li]

One reason might also be that the head is only bones and little muscle and other soft parts. So if you want to destroy your fist, hitting someones head is a good point to start. Unless of cours you do hand conditioning.

Chest is also not necessarily safer, slip a little lower and you might hit the solar-plexus by accident. Definitely no fun for the practise partner…

That said, I think in general martial arts are a lot safer practise than common sports… still remember that almost every other week some of my classmates used to come in with broken bones or other from their weekly football(soccer) practise.

[Bao]

Hard fist against soft parts. Soft hand (palm) against hard parts. Basic principle in most TCMA.

If you can take out a person's breath with palm to the chest you gain more time to punch his face. But if you can punch his face, hitting his chest is unecessary.

However, I don't agree with the chap. You don't practice punches at someone else's chest level. You practice it at your own chest level. When you strike with a straight fist against someone else, you hit the solar plexus or maybe his face. Why you practice at your own chest level is to teach your body clean angles, certain angles where the support from the body is as strong as possible. When you strike, you should keep the same angles of arm to chest, but lower the stance a bit or adjust it so you can strike higher or lower, but still with exactly the same support and power mechanics as you practice solo. If you just higher and lower your arms and break these important angles like the chap in the vid, you will loose it all when it turns real, everything you have been practicing, over and over again, for years and years.

[dspyrido]

Don't TMA practice to the body for exactly the same reason ye old school bare knuckle fighters did? Consider these fellas.





So why hit to the body?

1. Once in range dodging body strikes is harder - it means shifting the entire structure feet and all. Avoidance with the head is just bobbing, swaying & weaving and is much faster and less energy consuming.
2. Without gloves then a hit to body can really hurt - modern boxing nerfs this by putting gloves on and lifting the shorts way up
3. Hitting the body is actually not as dangerous to the knuckles as hitting the head. The top of the skull & forehead is thick and solid and can smash up the small knuckles of a fist. Also teeth can get dislodged into the knuckle if the impact into the mouth is hard enough.

I don't buy the "its safer" for training at all. Too weak an argument.

[jonathan.bluestein]

I teach Xing Yi and Pigua. I practice Southern Mantis. I have also practiced a little bit of Baji Quan and Jingang Bashi. All of these are striking-oriented arts, and all of them strike a lot to both the chest and head, depending on the technique and circumstances. All also feature many ways to hit both targets, with varying fist/palm formations. Given that, it would appear to me that an art with too heavy a focus on chest aim just got bad transmission through the generations. People try too hard at 'interpreting' reasons as to why 'things are like this/that' in Okinawan Karate. Sometimes they are like they are simply because of incorrect transmission of knowledge, and there is nothing more to it. The Okinawans took a relatively small % of the knowledge contained in Southern-Chinese arts, and from that small % they had developed further in a major way (which proved very effective and successful), though on a different path. Unfortunately, some habits which persisted are simply remnants of techniques and concepts the Okinawans had never learnt to begin with.

Furthermore, in my experience one doesn't require a lot of hand conditioning to hit well a face with an unprotected closed fist. Takes less than people think.

[kenneth fish]

Odd. When I was learning there was no such restriction, save for when the teacher wanted to demonstrate a technique and would say "punch to my head" or "punch to my chest". Otherwise in partner practice the head was fair game.

[aamc]

Errr.... This can't be right ? If I train only to defend against chest punches, how is that going to translate to punches to the head. All the queues will be wrong. I'm reminded of the stories of kyokushin guys being caught out when competing in other formats because the rule sets allow head punches.

Hell, the reason you probably punch at chest height in forms, is that its probably the best form for training alignment.

[Finny]

Errr.... This can't be right ? If I train only to defend against chest punches, how is that going to translate to punches to the head. All the queues will be wrong. I'm reminded of the stories of kyokushin guys being caught out when competing in other formats because the rule sets allow head punches.

Hell, the reason you probably punch at chest height in forms, is that its probably the best form for training alignment.

Yeah, I must admit the first image to pop into my head when I saw this thread, was of Andy Hug having his head repeatedly taken off his shoulders in K-1. He just wasn't used to people trying to smack him in the face.

[chenyaolong]

I dont think I explained fully above. It wasnt every technique would be aimed at the body in partner training, but when we practiced 2 person Pai Gong there would be certain techniques where we would hit each other in the chest (or the ribs with more controlled power), these techniques in reality would be aimed at either the solar plexus or face, but with hitting the chest in practice you can actually practice hitting the target with a fair amount of power, and the partner can get used to being hit by someone in an environment that doesnt make a beginner feel too uncomfortable.

When we did fixed partner drills, as long as you were familiar enough with them, we would go full out: if you didnt block, you would get hit in the head. But by that time you are familiar enough with the drill that it is very rare you actually get hit. Quite a few students preferred to practice with open hands so if they didnt react in time the blow wasnt so heavy

[Ralteria]

I thought the point of such exercises was in getting acclimated to the discomfort of being punched at or in the head. I'm not saying to make your head a punching bag, but that level of unease is where a lot of good knowledge lies.

If you are only ever in your comfort zone...

[willywrong]

Furthermore, in my experience one doesn't require a lot of hand conditioning to hit well a face with an unprotected closed fist. Takes less than people think.

My experience of hitting people in the head is having their teeth embedded in the bones of my fingers just beneath my knuckles a most unpleasant after-effect to deal with. This amongst others is one of the reasons I prefer the open hand to the first.

[Finny]

Furthermore, in my experience one doesn't require a lot of hand conditioning to hit well a face with an unprotected closed fist. Takes less than people think.

My experience of hitting people in the head is having their teeth embedded in the bones of my fingers just beneath my knuckles a most unpleasant after-effect to deal with. This amongst others is one of the reasons I prefer the open hand to the first.

Yeah I was going to say... maybe you're not hitting that hard then. I've broken my hand twice punching with closed fist. For certain reasons I don't use an open hand. But I'll take a broken carpal over a broken face any day...