IP/ Aiki Striking

[windwalker]

since there are no clips for comparison, it might be better to talk about the "clear flaws" that you see but have not felt,
rather then about something you have felt but has not been been seen

I see same side arm-leg weighting, no use of leg bows, no central equilibrium. Dan is an entirely different beast.

That guy strikes may feel like a wall, but even I can do that (and I'm a shit). I dont feel fear from that kind of movement, if you know wrestling-grappling you have a lot of tools to deal with it, look at his lower body.

just commenting on what is posted. not about his or dans methods which there are no clips of...
he does talk about cross body alignment, central equilibrium, spirals ect. He also comments on his work vs others and has a clip showing what he's talking about.
Whether he is doing what he talks about or feels he is showing is debatable even he mentioned that on film, things dont always come through.

those in the clips seem to feel his movement are very different from what they've felt just as you mentioned about what you've felt.
Dan, has mentioned he feels its a different method. my point being that it seems to me that one can not use words to comment on something that is not shown
to compare to something that is.

I think if one wanted to comment it would be better to use a time stamp to point out what what they felt about it or feel they see, or post clips of others showing the differences they speak of.

Fear,
fear has a lot to do with the way intent is used. A person can feel fear from something that he / she has not felt physically and yet feel no fear
from something that they do feel physically.



,

[Bodywork]

He isn't doing and cannot demonstrate what he thinks he's talking about. His body is not trained and moving that way. The language.....isn't his.
Have fun.

[amor]

Thanks Dan and jaime_g for providing some background info and perceived lack of aiki/IP from movement shown in the videos, I didn't notice it but agree same side arm-leg weighting is a big no no.
It is interesting to note this development of non dantien connections that Dan mentioned ( I thought there was only 1 way of building connections?) and I can only guess at what this means and why it is inferior to the dantien method of developing connections however lack of equilibrium is an important consideration.

[jaime_g]

he does talk about cross body alignment, central equilibrium, spirals ect. He also comments on his work vs others and has a clip showing what he's talking about.

There is a very simple test to check that. Let a guy hit you with a strong punch while you arm drag him (you are not trying to avoid the hit, just checking his connection) If you succeed with the arm drag, I dont care if the other guy have struck you with the power of a tank, he had not central equilibrium.

In 0:55,1:07, 1:54, 2:38, 2:47,3:20,3:28,3:33,4:00 , 4:04, 4:06, 4:10,5:05, 5:23 (not sure if I forgot any punch) he would have failed the test.

There are a lot of people that feel weird or very strong, but not many can pass this test just by being a connected person. Many people try pulling back, fast recovering, stiff arm...A few will look at you smiling.

[windwalker]

he does talk about cross body alignment, central equilibrium, spirals ect. He also comments on his work vs others and has a clip showing what he's talking about.

There is a very simple test to check that. Let a guy hit you with a strong punch while you arm drag him (you are not trying to avoid the hit, just checking his connection) If you succeed with the arm drag, I dont care if the other guy have struck you with the power of a tank, he had not central equilibrium.

In 0:55,1:07, 1:54, 2:38, 2:47,3:20,3:28,3:33,4:00 , 4:04, 4:06, 4:10,5:05, 5:23 (not sure if I forgot any punch) he would have failed the test.

There are a lot of people that feel weird or very strong, but not many can pass this test just by being a connected person. Many people try pulling back, fast recovering, stiff arm...A few will look at you smiling.

good try.

ask the people there about what they feel or think.

Your looking at a clip comparing it to what you've felt and making a comment with no clips of what you felt.
Now its a "test" he has to pass. A what if test at that...

Why not just meet the guy tell him what you feel and see what happens. Then you would have a film clip to point to and direct experience
to talk about. Your using an experience with no clip.
With nothing to compare it to it remains an opinion based on your experiencing. .

as for the test, I see nothing special in it.

The org. claim was that he is doing what dan does, or dan is doing what he does. makes little difference to me.
dan, said he its not the same, "said" not "shown" so far its mote point without nothing to compare it to.

One either believes him or not, or it doesn't matter.

My vote would be it doesn't matter.
my comment was on your comment using your experience as gauge, with no clips or examples to compare it with
not about the actors involved. Thought it was kinda strange, guess not...

[jaime_g]

Well, I tried my best

[Rabbit]

Someone else posted a video of Dan recently. It speaks for itself.
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23966&sid=f19a36a76cd85906be5dcd7d27caca13[/quote]

OK cool, glad to see a clip
Can you say what you see please?
I am genuinely intrigued as people who know Dan testify to very high level skill and Dan himself on line positions himself in , lets say, a certain light .....

[snafu]

Someone else posted a video of Dan recently. It speaks for itself.
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23966&sid=af7663c4aedcf4f1e66d02886cf97f25

OK cool, glad to see a clip
Can you say what you see please?
I am genuinely intrigued as people who know Dan testify to very high level skill and Dan himself on line positions himself in , lets say, a certain light .....

People make too much out of this clip. Yes, it's a clip of Dan, but it won't cause rays of light to stream from the heavens and give spontaneous enlightenment - so I will slightly disagree with the poster and say it doesn't exactly speak for itself.

It's just showing Dan trying to teach us knuckleheads how dantien can be used to create rising and sinking to move a weapon - in this case a bo, for lack of a longer naginata available. So, if you could use a dantien like that to power a weapon, you could certainly use that to move other parts of your body, like, uh, your arm, and move from it while keeping a central eliquibrium that allows you to actually be stable and not one-side weighted all over the place while striking or, really, any movement at all.

But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. For pretty much all of us, this is cart before horse.

[Taste of Death]

Someone else posted a video of Dan recently. It speaks for itself.
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23966&sid=0a035ac3f1eae45ed030ed068f0a8cef

OK cool, glad to see a clip
Can you say what you see please?
I am genuinely intrigued as people who know Dan testify to very high level skill and Dan himself on line positions himself in , lets say, a certain light .....

People make too much out of this clip. Yes, it's a clip of Dan, but it won't cause rays of light to stream from the heavens and give spontaneous enlightenment - so I will slightly disagree with the poster and say it doesn't exactly speak for itself.

It's just showing Dan trying to teach us knuckleheads how dantien can be used to create rising and sinking to move a weapon - in this case a bo, for lack of a longer naginata available. So, if you could use a dantien like that to power a weapon, you could certainly use that to move other parts of your body, like, uh, your arm, and move from it while keeping a central eliquibrium that allows you to actually be stable and not one-side weighted all over the place while striking or, really, any movement at all.

But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. For pretty much all of us, this is cart before horse.

You say it takes decades to learn and no one in that room but Dan could do it but "it doesn't speak for itself". Maybe you can post a video of you so we can make a comparison.

[snafu]

You say it takes decades to learn and no one in that room but Dan could do it but "it doesn't speak for itself". Maybe you can post a video of you so we can make a comparison.

I think you are misinterpreting me - or if you aren't, I can't quite follow your implication. My point was that Dan was confusing us enough when we were standing in the room with him, with him explaining what we were supposed to be seeing in the first place. So, I don't think that we should assume looking at these videos claiming we can easily understand what's going on, at least for people like me still in the learning process, because I sure as hell am still trying to figure it all out - that applies no less to me trying to look at and interpret Dan or Salahuddin as to what they may or may not be doing. Let he who is with a dantien cast the first stone? It's possible I'm also just slow and not entirely talented at learning this stuff, but that was never in question.

[Bao]

It's just showing Dan trying to teach us knuckleheads how dantien can be used to create rising and sinking to move a weapon - in this case a bo, for lack of a longer naginata available. ...
But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. . .

Cool! But I don't understand. You have a dantian, I have a Dantian, we all do. It sounds very basic IMHO.

. My point was that Dan was confusing us enough when we were standing in the room with him, with him explaining what we were supposed to be seeing in the first place. So, I don't think that we should assume looking at these videos claiming we can easily understand what's going on, at least for people like me still in the learning process, because I sure as hell am still trying to figure it all out -

Do you mean that he tried to confuse you? Or you were confused? Or more or less everyone were confused? It doesn't sound very good...

[Finny]

Bao - he's articulated it very clearly:

But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. For pretty much all of us, this is cart before horse.

You can say that 'we all have a dantian' - but the fact is, most (myself included) DON'T have a developed dantian which can be physically manipulated/rolled like some folks do. I've put my hand on the side of Sam Chin's belly while he was sitting on a sofa and had him 'punch' my hand with his dantian. If you have a developed ball sitting in your lower torso which can be manipulated/controlled like that good for you - but if you're saying that's 'basic' for most people - come on now.. it's clearly not.

His point was obviously that without a developed dantian like Dan has, what he was showing cannot be 'copied' and is therefore confusing. IOW the physical manipulation of the staff/whatever is not it - the internal dynamics are the point, and without the physical conditioning copying the external form is 'confusing' or obscuring the real point.

What I want to know is.. what's the key exercise/exercises to develop/control the dantian.. but I guess I'll have to try to get to one of Dan's seminars to find out

[Bao]

Bao - he's articulated it very clearly:

But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. For pretty much all of us, this is cart before horse.

You can say that 'we all have a dantian' - but the fact is, most (myself included) DON'T have a developed dantian which can be physically manipulated/rolled like some folks do. I've put my hand on the side of Sam Chin's belly while he was sitting on a sofa and had him 'punch' my hand with his dantian. If you have a developed ball sitting in your lower torso which can be manipulated/controlled like that good for you - but if you're saying that's 'basic' for most people - come on now.. it's clearly not.

His point was obviously that without a developed dantian like Dan has, what he was showing cannot be 'copied' and is therefore confusing. IOW the physical manipulation of the staff/whatever is not it - the internal dynamics are the point, and without the physical conditioning copying the external form is 'confusing' or obscuring the real point.

What I want to know is.. what's the key exercise/exercises to develop/control the dantian.. but I guess I'll have to try to get to one of Dan's seminars to find out

I really don't agree with these [most common] type of descriptions on what dantian work is, and what a developed dantian is. We all have a dantian. Everyone can learn how to coordinate movements from the dantian, i.e. use it. Using the dantian is about learning how to coordinate the structure and movements from this part of the body. Dantian is a tiny spot inside the body. Using the dantian has absolutely nothing to do with developing the physical surface of the stomach, as movements of external muscles, or hardness of the belly. This kind of practice is physical isolation practice, comparable to what yogis do, and it has nothing to do with using the dantian for movement and coordination. It's not even the dantian that is developed or practiced this way. If you think that you must develop the surface of the belly physically before being able to use the dantian that has nothing to do with this surface, you are either ignorant, confused or have been fooled. But I think you might understand all of this very well, but maybe confusing internal and external parts when you write. You say yourself that "internal dynamics is the point". And that's true. Rolling the belly surface around is not "internal dynamics", it's external mechanics.

[Bodywork]

You're not going to accomplish "connecting your whole bodies structure" to a tiny spot inside your body to produce unusual power.
In fact, you never have.
Defend it.
What is your "whole bodies structure connected to a tiny spot."
What is the physical nature of that structure?
What is the physical nature of your tiny spot?
What then, moves what?
How?
Supporting what?
You are confusing two very different methods and making it sound absolute.

Telling me i confused people and I "fooled them.", is insulting both them and me. I think it is easy to sit and insult me and call me a fraud while sitting on your ass.Try it in person sometime. There are better ways to debate a subject.

[snafu]

Bao - he's articulated it very clearly:

But, well, none of us in the room had/have a dantien to work with or really do what he was showing, so other than being an interesting display of what can be done several decades later once you've built a dantien, seeing someone doing it doesn't do much particular good. For pretty much all of us, this is cart before horse.

You can say that 'we all have a dantian' - but the fact is, most (myself included) DON'T have a developed dantian which can be physically manipulated/rolled like some folks do. I've put my hand on the side of Sam Chin's belly while he was sitting on a sofa and had him 'punch' my hand with his dantian. If you have a developed ball sitting in your lower torso which can be manipulated/controlled like that good for you - but if you're saying that's 'basic' for most people - come on now.. it's clearly not.

His point was obviously that without a developed dantian like Dan has, what he was showing cannot be 'copied' and is therefore confusing. IOW the physical manipulation of the staff/whatever is not it - the internal dynamics are the point, and without the physical conditioning copying the external form is 'confusing' or obscuring the real point.

What I want to know is.. what's the key exercise/exercises to develop/control the dantian.. but I guess I'll have to try to get to one of Dan's seminars to find out

+1

I guess I walked into Bao's comment by a poor choice of words on my part - my bad. I think 'vexing' would have been better. Dan was sincerely and painstakingly trying to make sure we understood it as much as he could. But, Finny, you get me perfectly none the less.

It's one thing to see someone do it and explain it to me, but then when I try to make myself do it... it's never quite what I first interpreted it to be.

Anyway, I'll shut up and bow out now.