Hasegawa sensei of Shorinji Kempo.. aiki?

[ors]

Interesting video. Throws, joint manipulation and more.... aiki?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ruyCIGc3fI&spfreload=1

Enjoy!

Örs

[jim]

Jujutsu perhaps?

I know the history of the style says it's a Chinese system but it doesn't look especially Chinese to my eyes. Did So Doshin really bring Shaolin teachings back to post war Japan, or did he base his organisation on the physical and spiritual ideals of Shaolin?

Maybe someone with more knowledge can enlighten me?

[mrtoes]

No aiki - I don't know the style but looks to me like just technique with hard hip driven power and ukes who are a bit eager to dive after going for the wrist grabs.

Matthew

[wayne hansen]

In 1975 after fighting in TST tournament in Taiwan I spent some time training with the shoringi Kempo people in Kyoto
Master ikeda was a senior lecturer in mischieo kushies school in accupuncture
They were great people to train with and had good skills
After fighting the number 2 man in the school he took off his second degree black and presented it to me
It still has pride of place in my home
I agree it did not look Chinese to me even though the name means shaolin boxing

[Andy_S]

Shorin Kempo is an odd beast:
Their stance and guard looks a lot like karate
Their punches look much more like boxing, especially with the snap-back rather than lockout
Their kicks, again, feature snap and no lockout
They have a wide range of jujitsu grafted onto the system
And they have pressure point KOs.
Not sure about weapons.

Where did it all come from? Your guess is as good as mine - in technique terms, it does not really look like JMA or CMA.

Still, it looks like a very complete MA and a lot of it looks effective.

Though AFAIK, it has no connection with Nippon Kempo (the Japanese military MA, which I would say is an early form of MMA).

[allen2saint]

After fighting the number 2 man in the school he took off his second degree black and presented it to me
It still has pride of place in my home

Not to put you on the spot, Wayne, but that story made my week. I kind of forget what amazing people are here on this forum.

[edededed]

I always thought that Shorinji-kenpo was karate + judo + aikido + a bit of boxing influence. Essentially, a mix of what was available in post-war Japan, with cooler-looking uniforms. In Japan, they have also registered trademarks for the word "Shaolin temple" (少林寺) - because apparently you can register almost anything you want as a trademark here, including foreign historical landmarks and foreign words. Yay for organizational power!

[wayne hansen]

More to that story Allen
We fought in protective gear in Taiwan as they did in shoringi kenpo
I hated fighting in that gear in the heat of October
I asked if we could fight without gear and not hit the groin and head
Due to nerves as soon as tanaka sensei attacked I hit him with dragon above tiger below
Fist in the head foot in the groin
To his credit he saw it was unintentional and did not make me pay
There is a good episode on SK on the BBC series way of the warrior
One interesting point is they don't roll out of a joint lock like aikido but cartwheel instead
A lot of my early chinna came from them

[C.J.W.]

The founder of Shorinji Kempo claimed to have studied with Shaolin monks during his time in Manchuria in the early 20th century but, like Andy said, their forms and techniques bear very little to no resemblance to Northern Shaolin styles. My guess is he most likely just borrowed the Shaolin name in order to promote a system he created based on a blend of Japanese arts.

As for the teacher's demo, IMO it's no different from decent Aikido/Hapkido.

[allen2saint]

Thanks, Wayne. Nice to hear that honor, not fake movie bravado, but the real human kind of honor, between people who know what it is to try and fail,does indeed exist in the real world.

[Chris Li]

As for the teacher's demo, IMO it's no different from decent Aikido/Hapkido.

FWIW, So Doshin trained a little bit in Hakko-ryu.

Best,

Chris

[vadaga]

SNIP
Still, it looks like a very complete MA and a lot of it looks effective.

For what it's worth, I had a friend in Japan that trained judo, daito-ryu and shorinji kempo, he said for effectiveness that daito-ryu was most effective but that he preferred training shorinji kempo because it had a positive philosophy embedded as part of the training and was more fun.

Though AFAIK, it has no connection with Nippon Kempo (the Japanese military MA, which I would say is an early form of MMA).

Yeah, (and apologies in advance coz you probably know this already...) there no direct connection between shorinji kempo and nippon kempo, they just both have the word for fist (拳) in the name but that's like how mantis fist螳螂拳, Hung Gar洪拳/洪家拳, monkey fist猴拳, tongbei 通背拳 etc.etc. in Chinese systems all use that word without actually being closely related

[Graculus]

It was some years ago now, but the Nippon Shorinji Kempo organization lost a court battle in which they tried to get Shorinji Kempo trade marked (in Japan) – they were forced to add the 'Nippon' to their official title. Despite the founder's claims, they could present no proof of any direct connection to Shaolin.

I'm not sure how effective it is…I remember Draeger made some rather damning comments regarding this (as well as its 'Chinese' roots). I have heard some other less than complimentary remarks as well. At higher levels the politics of the organization become more apparent as well, which is a turn-off for most non-Japanese.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[edededed]

I dunno - I just did a search on a Japanese registered trademark database (https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/web/a ... ge.action#), and got:

Registration 1087596: 9/9/1974, expires 9/9/2014, trademark "少林寺" (i.e. Shaolinsi/Shorinji); trademark holder 有限責任中間法人少林寺拳法知財保護法人 (i.e. limited liability intermediary corporation Shorinji Kenpo IP Preservation Corporation); Class 1 (printed materials, etc.)
Registration 1942894: 3/27/1987, expires 3/27/2017, trademark "少林寺" (i.e. Shaolinsi/Shorinji); trademark holder 有限責任中間法人ＳＨＯＲＩＮＪＩ　ＫＥＭＰＯ　ＵＮＩＴＹ (i.e. limited liability intermediary corporation Shorinji Kempo Unity); Class 2 (sports products, toys, etc.)
Registration 3022095: 1/31/1995, expires 1/31/2015, trademark: "少林寺" (i.e. Shaolinsi/Shorinji); trademark holder 有限責任中間法人少林寺拳法知財保護法人 (i.e. limited liability intermediary corporation Shorinji Kenpo IP Preservation Corporation); Class 1 (sports products, art, etc.)

Now, I'm no lawyer, so I only sort of understand this - but it looks like there were three separate trademarks held by the main Shorinji Kempo IP organization (there are two names above, actually they refer to the same organization, which had a name change). Looks like 2/3 have expired very recently, though - perhaps they will try to get these up again. It's probably easy to do so - as far as I know, the Trademark Office in Japan does not seem to vet foreign-sourced names much at all. There are also weird loopholes (an easy to understand example is "Playboy," a famous magazine for men that is sold in Japan as well. Strangely, a local magazine has taken the same name as well - except that they use Japanese "letters" to write the name instead, so it is okay! Er - so much for "spirit of the law"...)

[Graculus]

Looks like what I read may only have been hearsay – that was also from Draeger. Thanks for the correction.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com