Chen Zhonghua of martial arts and ethics

[jonathan.bluestein]

[bruce]

interesting comments. some good stuff to think about.
are there any stories about chen fake and the person he killed?

[Graculus]

This would have been Chen Fake's run in with the leader of a band of Red Spear Bandits in Wen county.

The legal repercussions of Chen’s actions on the bridge that day haunted him until practically the end of his life. His student Hong Jun-sheng relates that when he attempted to visit his teacher in Beijing in 1956 he found him being questioned by two agents of the new Communist government. They had been tasked with investigating the events of 1926 and were treating Chen’s involvement in them as a “manslaughter case.” Ultimately the government took no action against Chen (perhaps because they were too busy violently suppressing what was left of the Red Spears in the countryside). Yet the master confided in his student that what was once “a good deed done for the people has become a troublesome matter.” It is precisely the emergence of these sorts of uncomfortable consequences that grant legitimacy to the original story.

http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2014/11/07/chen-fake-fights-the-red-spear-bandits-community-conflict-and-the-role-of-the-chinese-martial-arts-in-local-governance/

I have heard two other stories of fights he had (one in print, the other orally); in both of these, he was careful not to unduly injure or cause embarrassment to his opponent. Very different from Li Shu Wen, the baji master, and we know what happened to him.

I question Chen Zhonghua's opinion that many masters were killed by their students. In fact, off hand, I can't think of any who were. This doesn't take away the fact that many teacher's were notoriously tight with their secrets (and kept them for that very reason); John Wang's teacher (Chang Dong Sheng) apparently said his teacher wept on his death bed because there was so much he hadn't taught Chang (Chinese Boxing: Masters and Methods RW Smith). John has told several interesting stories revolving around that mindset over the years. (And any more would be welcome).

Smith also tells the story of Du Xin Wu, who was challenged by one of his students three(?) times, the last time putting him (the student) in hospital. (I have never seen any corroboration of this, so if anyone has heard the story from elsewhere, please do tell).

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[Andy_S]

"Hong never hurt anyone in his life."

Is there not the tale - I think Chen tells it himself somewhere - of Hong, late in life, being challenged, and seriously injuring the chap's hands and wrist when he attempted to push Hong on the chest?