Good Hopgar/Hungar

[Drake]

Nice, Shawn! I'm not too familiar with very many styles of taiji.

Lama Pai was/is brutal, and to the point. A northern style that found it's way south. There were wars in Hong Kong between Lama Pai schools, and Wing Chun schools in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. You'll see many of Lion's Roar techniques that were incorporated into Hung Ga. Definitely a practical series of styles that emerged from L.R.

[windwalker]

A good interview with David Chin,

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/ ... rticle=661

some interesting notes reflecting the times

Do genuine masters really withhold their best techniques from their students? According to Grandmaster David Chin, they do. "The old traditional masters, they were so protective of themselves," comments Chin. "They made sure they could make a living. They didn't want the students to compete against them."

In my own time, we grew up with the idea of not showing anything to outsiders.
The idea of cross training, with different teachers was not allowed.
Times have evolved? maybe

With hop gar, the training was such that it weeded out people who couldnt do it, not really meant for people just passing through.

Today, few Americans live the type of lifestyle conducive to achieving true kung fu mastery, so keeping secrets is no longer as important as in days gone by. Quite the opposite, most contemporary masters are revealing all their secrets, in fear that if they don't, they may be the last of their breed. And no one wants their art to die with them.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/ ... rticle=661

[Drake]

What you're describing could be associated with pretty much any style of TCMA. It's a cultural thing, and isn't going to change. The mindset of most people these days from all over the world is one of "immediacy", or "what's next?". Even if they've not mastered the basics at any level. <<shrug>> No patience, only ego. It's just sad.

[windwalker]

He was a master of using the technique of cruelty." There are four principles for Hop Gar: cruelty, evasion, penetration and interception.

When asked about cruelty, Chin stoically quotes the Lama White Crane kung fu classics: "When hunting a tiger, destroy it. Otherwise, a wounded tiger will return to harm you.
When weeding a garden, pull up the roots. Otherwise, the weeds will grow back.
Whether the lion is hunting an elephant or a rabbit, the lion always uses full force."

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/ ... rticle=661

mind set,,,how does one keep this in normal life. a couple of threads on MMA and such, for competitors they get because they need to have it.

[Drake]

I understand what you're getting at. That's why, in the beginning, the style(s) originators were monks. Balance. When they were forced to fight/defend themselves there is no mercy. In their normal lives all mercy was shown. These days folks aren't looking for a fight. Not really. A vast majority of M.A. practitioners have never had a fight, nor will ever have one. They'd rather discuss what person A would do to person B in a given situation.

[Bhassler]

I understand what you're getting at. That's why, in the beginning, the style(s) originators were monks. Balance.

I think in most instances fighters became monks because there were no retirement or pension plans. Like everything else, it was probably more pragmatic than poetic....

[I am...]

Not to mention that one could (and still can in some parts of Asia) choose to become a monk instead of going to prison in many cases when one had been living a bad life.

[Andy_S]

Drake:

SNIP
Full body? Not even close.
SNIP

To my eye he has got it. He entrains power from the foot, it comes up through the leg, his hips are totally relaxed so his dantien has full freedom, etc, etc.

SNIP
Too much emphasis on the lead hand, and not what should be going on with the opposite hand. ((equal/opposite, and all))
SNIP

If you look at his other clips, he specifically shows how the rear hand is used in power generation (rather than tactical application).

SNIP
Qua is left open
SNIP

One qua open, one qua very clearly closed.

SNIP
and the leg are left out of the techniques so a considerable amount of power is left out of the strikes. The gent has all the techniques, but not the refinement(s).
SNIP

Again, what I see - simply from the way he shifts his foot so that the power is entrained up the body - suggests to me considerable refinement.

BTW (on a totally different issue) I have been meaning to ask you this for a while:
Where does the clip in your signature come from...?

[Drake]

That's Allison Brie from "Community", Andy. She's freaking hilarious, smart, and hot as hell. As far as the gent in the clips: We're coming from different frames of reference, I'm sure. Lama was a tertiary style for me, but important, and I trained it heavily when I trained it. My lama pai was influenced by hsing-i, and liuhebafa mechanics and techniques so I'm sure I see things that most wouldn't. I'm not saying he isn't effective, or competent. I just see where refinements would help. <<shrug>> This is all in fun, ennehoo..... Itz da interwebz!

[Andy_S]

Drake:

RE: The chap in the clips:
Let's agree to disagree

RE: Allison Brie
You and I are on the same page here, no question. Sensational wobblers!

[Drake]

LOL..... and that's fine. Disagreements, and differences are *far* more interesting than same ol' same ol'. I absolutely *love* smart, funny, hot women!!!

[D_Glenn]

couple of points worth noting is the "no blocking" and "footwork" this coupled with the long arm makes the style very unique.
Some have commented about how CMA looks when used, and that fighting looks like fighting.

hop gar looks like how its practiced, there's not much change between usage and practice.

I don't know or practice hop gar so when he starts showing the stylized movements done against the other guy at full speed it just looks fighting. If I saw him kicking someone's ass on the street I wouldn't be able to identify his style of fighting.
Maybe some bystander who did hop gar for years could identify it.

.

[windwalker]

couple of points worth noting is the "no blocking" and "footwork" this coupled with the long arm makes the style very unique.
Some have commented about how CMA looks when used, and that fighting looks like fighting.

hop gar looks like how its practiced, there's not much change between usage and practice.

I don't know or practice hop gar so when he starts showing the stylized movements done against the other guy at full speed it just looks fighting. If I saw him kicking someone's ass on the street I wouldn't be able to identify his style of fighting.
Maybe some bystander who did hop gar for years could identify it..

because one couldnt tell whose problem would it be?

It just gives lic. IMO to those who have not yet internalized what ever they do to say that they practice one way and it looks like something else.
If one can not recognize or understand trained tech vs un trained tech, whose problem would it be?

its not about looking like, it is about being and doing. a boxer does not look like a boxer boxing, he is and does. those watching him would know, if not what it was they would know that the person was quite skilled at what ever it was that they where doing.

what many seem to be saying is that what they practice has nothing to do with how it looks or used except when it comes to BJJ, Thia boxing, Boxing ect. then its quite clear the how, what and why.

Then the discussion for the most part is about how to improve or make it better, not about whether its fake or not, or how it looks or the many other things questioned by those say they practice "insert style" that they claim they never see used live.

[D_Glenn]

couple of points worth noting is the "no blocking" and "footwork" this coupled with the long arm makes the style very unique.
Some have commented about how CMA looks when used, and that fighting looks like fighting.

hop gar looks like how its practiced, there's not much change between usage and practice.

I don't know or practice hop gar so when he starts showing the stylized movements done against the other guy at full speed it just looks fighting. If I saw him kicking someone's ass on the street I wouldn't be able to identify his style of fighting.
Maybe some bystander who did hop gar for years could identify it..

because one couldnt tell whose problem would it be?

It just gives lic. IMO to those who have not yet internalized what ever they do to say that they practice one way and it looks like something else.
If one can not recognize or understand trained tech vs un trained tech, whose problem would it be?

its not about looking like, it is about being and doing. a boxer does not look like a boxer boxing, he is and does. those watching him would know, if not what it was they would know that the person was quite skilled at what ever it was that they where doing.

what many seem to be saying is that what they practice has nothing to do with how it looks or used except when it comes to BJJ, Thia boxing, Boxing ect. then its quite clear the how, what and why.

Then the discussion for the most part is about how to improve or make it better, not about whether its fake or not, or how it looks or the many other things questioned by those say they practice "insert style" that they claim they never see used live.

I don't think you really understand what I'm trying to say.

In one's practice/training it's like taking your car into a garage and running it on a dynamometer.

A fight is like taking your car and racing it on a muddy off-road racetrack.

Same car, same exact movements, only with all the proverbial mud,and chaos of the racetracks obstacles etc. you can't see see the car in the same manner as you can when the car is going 60mph on a dyno.

The same way I train my movements in practice is the same way that I use it. I have a choice though, as I can just use say my "Inward Cutting Strike" with my dantian or without. In the middle of a fight one time, I realized "Oh crap I'm not even using my dantian." So, split second later I throw what looks like the exact same movement of my arm, only with that extra power, I feel and hear the guys cheekbone crack. But to anyone else who may have been watching, they just thought I was throwing hook punches.



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