Huang Style push hands

[Bao]

Before you actually make physical contact, assume an attitude of emptiness

The advise/instruction is Gold. If you can empty yourself, only those who are better at it can defeat you. Or at least, your opponent cannot defeat you easily.

Emptiness is the essence of the tai chi mind set and the very key for success in the art. This is also why, IME, it's very hard to combine tai chi with an art that teach another mindset. IME meaning that I can not do it.

So what level am I talking about ? It is how GM Li HeSheng categorized (the headings only, the rest is IMU&E the qualities that is should cover) it below :

1. Regard Body as Hand - jibenggong, form, structure, alignment, body-mechanics, relax and taut. Obvious movements, external kinetics. Mechanical.

2. Regard Energy as Hand - All above connected by energy/jing/qi, relax and ''song'' subtle movements. Internal kinetics. Electric/magnetic energy.

3. Regard Yi/Intent as Hand - all movement control by Yi/Intent. Mind over Body, use Yi not Li, very subtle/no movement.

The problem, IMHO, is that you can describe any method according to any of the three levels. If you look around at youtube, you can see virtually or exactly the same methods, but different teachers will describe it according to energy, another to yi and yet others on a pure physical level. Yet they all do exactly the same things. Explanations of things according to qi, yi or Shen, IMHO, regardless the level you attribute things to, is still intellectual constructions and say very little about the training to reach the point where you can use a certain method. How do you practice to reach the point where you can use a tai chi principle regardless level? Speaking about qi or yi only give away something about your intellectual process. Mostly it gives a student no clue about how to practically do something. In IMA, there's often a great gap between explanation and practical practice and practical experience. And this is also one of the main reasons why one thing can be explained in many different not very practical ways.

[willywrong]

[quote="windwalker

I have experienced many strange phenomena in tai chi when training and also when not training. I think trying to discuss these things is pointless on forum's. The only way for this type of knowledge to be passed is in one on one training which is the same for most arts.

its good advice but also kind of strange advice considering this is supposed to be an "IMA" site.

You haven't look at the bottom of my posts. " When Allah is well disposed to one of his disciples he opens the gate of deeds and closes the doors of discussion." Old Sufi saying.

Can you do what he does if not then its just talk.

[windwalker]

Can you do what he does if not then its just talk.

some not all.

I agreed with what you wrote, and thought it would be more interesting and positive to talk about how some might either do what he does
or how they feel its being done other then the standard claims of fake, complacency ect.

It might prompt some like your self to talk about some of the experiences that many others might have but dont share here
because, its not something to be talked about

He did a lot in promoting taiji.

One of his students, nice read btw

Patrick A Kelly began Taiji with an experienced student of Master Huang Xingxian in 1973. In 1977 he moved to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia where he studied full time in Master Huang's school. In 1979, following tradition, Master Huang accepted Patrick as his personal disciple -

the only non-Chinese to ever enter Huang's inner-school. From that time Patrick Kelly travelled and taught beween Asia, Australasia and Europe while continuing to learn personally with Master Huang untill his death late 1992. Simultaneously Patrick worked closely both with the Naqshibandi Gnostic Sage Abdullah Dougan for 14 years until Abdullah's death in 1987 and for 30 years with the Raja Yogi Mounimaharaj of Rajasthan who died in 2007 at more than 105 years old

http://www.patrickkellytaiji.com/WHOAMI ... kelly.html

he looked up at the stars then gesturing to the expanse of the night sky he turned to me and said, "That is the big Taiji, inside us is the small Taiji", then after a moment's pause added quietly, "Now I teach Taiji, not Taijiquan" .

teacher haung,

nice reminded me very much of my own teacher in Beijing.

[willywrong]

Can you do what he does if not then its just talk.

some not all.

I agreed with what you wrote, and thought it would be more interesting and positive to talk about how some might either do what he does
or how they feel its being done other then the standard claims of fake, complacency ect.

It might prompt some like your self to talk about some of the experiences that many others might have but dont share here
because, its not something to be talked about

He did a lot in promoting taiji.



One of his students, nice read btw

Patrick A Kelly began Taiji with an experienced student of Master Huang Xingxian in 1973. In 1977 he moved to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia where he studied full time in Master Huang's school. In 1979, following tradition, Master Huang accepted Patrick as his personal disciple -

the only non-Chinese to ever enter Huang's inner-school. From that time Patrick Kelly travelled and taught beween Asia, Australasia and Europe while continuing to learn personally with Master Huang untill his death late 1992. Simultaneously Patrick worked closely both with the Naqshibandi Gnostic Sage Abdullah Dougan for 14 years until Abdullah's death in 1987 and for 30 years with the Raja Yogi Mounimaharaj of Rajasthan who died in 2007 at more than 105 years old

http://www.patrickkellytaiji.com/WHOAMI ... kelly.html

he looked up at the stars then gesturing to the expanse of the night sky he turned to me and said, "That is the big Taiji, inside us is the small Taiji", then after a moment's pause added quietly, "Now I teach Taiji, not Taijiquan" .

teacher haung,

nice reminded me very much of my own teacher in Beijing.

I've got quite a bit of footage of Patrick pushing with Haung and also Tony Ward and its interesting but that all. Patrick's pushing with tony is not as stage as Adam's.

[taiwandeutscher]

Oh now, now we all have to medidate on the yellow light?

[wayne hansen]

I don't get your reference
Does it make more sense in german

[taiwandeutscher]

I once did attend a P. K. workshop, didn't much like that, his students standing in cowboy boots and silk shirt on a wooden floor of a gym, blaming me for being too rough, lol. I did leave, when he started us on imagining the Yellow light, what a hoot!

[willywrong]

I once did attend a P. K. workshop, didn't much like that, his students standing in cowboy boots and silk shirt on a wooden floor of a gym, blaming me for being too rough, lol. I did leave, when he started us on imagining the Yellow light, what a hoot!

Its the cult bullshit I think your referring too. Oh where the fuck was that workshop?

[amor]

I think trying to discuss these things is pointless on forum's. The only way for this type of knowledge to be passed is in one on one training which is the same for most arts.

沒有內氣供給的外形動作叫"妄動"那隻是掄胳臂、踢臂，不是打太極拳。
If there is no internal Qi behind the external movements, then it is called "妄動" (“reckless movements”). They are simply arm waving and hitting, and not Tai Chi Chuan.
"意氣為君，骨肉為臣"。意氣和骨肉，不是半斤八兩(過去的秤 16 兩為一斤) ，不是"平起平坐"的關係。意氣是統治者、領導者、支配者; 骨肉是被統治者、領導者、被支配者。
Yi and Qi are the most important (君 ­ Emperor), bones and muscles are secondary (臣 ­ minister). Yi, Qi and bones and muscles do not have the same roles, and do not have equal relationship. Yi and Qi are the ruler, leader, and commander. The bones and muscles listen to the ruler and leader, and follow the commands. { Translator: In Chinese, an emperor gives the command, the ministers carries out the task. The emperor must trust the ministers and not micromanage, and the ministers must not do outside of the emperor's wishes.}

Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi
Chuan
Translated by Richard Man, [email protected]
http://facebook.com/g roups/I MA. LiteraryTrad ition


Before you actually make physical contact, assume an attitude of emptiness. With that established you can very lightly touch your partner’s hand. Once you have touched him, you must not move of your own volition. Think of this phase strictly as a means of training your sensitivity and awareness. Then you use your superior emptiness, awareness, perception, and sensitivity to engage your spirit in order to neutralize even his slightest intent towards movement against you, following and adhering without gaps or resistance. Under these conditions, his faults will unfailingly be immediately apparent to you and the opportunity to deal with his movement will spring naturally to your hands

Master Li Yaxuan’s Explanatory Notes on Push Hands
, I have tried to preserve some of the flavor
of his direct, unpretentious, and refreshingly unpoetic style for your reading enjoyment). - Scott Meredith / Sept 2010 / http://www.zmq37.com]

Thanks Windy, Can't access the site, looks down, but Scott meredith is a good go-to source imo for some taichi aspects even if he does affiliate himself with chen manqing

FWIW though about Adam misner, he does look like he has something unusual which places him in the list of unusual people I suppose, I never met the man so I wont comment further.

[windwalker]

This link should work

http://sitekreator.com/zmq37/writings.html

he's translated some good writings by noted masters of taiji.

interesting the link does not show up on the main site home page