Fajin woo woo hop breakdown

[wayne hansen]

One thing I would like to point out is Adams tai chi isn't all that bad
He is better than some here who have been critical of him
He also has a solid background in gow gar through Henry sue
Sure he uses tricks to fool people
This is a tradition that goes back to huang
I don't see many from his school who don't use these tricks
Now the buddists monk thing is a whole other thing

[wayne hansen]

This is how to explain

http://youtu.be/pOj7GvaK_OU
.

[Fatoldkungfuguy]

Hi. New here. Total dusclosure. Former student of adam and other huang style taiji students. Just wanted to say that all of huangs students i have met have real demonstrable skill.

Also i don't agree with the explanation of body mechanics in the video breakdowns.

I see different things happening than what is in Stuarts reakdowns. Considering a breakdown vid of my own but i sm technologically retarded.

Also when i met Adam i was not a student of his. I attended a seminar. Was invited to attack his most senior student in whatever way i wanted. Had my butt handed to me.

Also half of the people in those seminars are not students of adams but curious people from other arts.

One seminar a random guy who was taller and heavier got thrown about 6 metres away with a finger flick by adams senior disciple. Unfortunately i think the camera missed it .

Also sorry for posting on a very old thread

[dspyrido]

Hi. New here. Total dusclosure. Former student of adam and other huang style taiji students. Just wanted to say that all of huangs students i have met have real demonstrable skill.

Also i don't agree with the explanation of body mechanics in the video breakdowns.

I see different things happening than what is in Stuarts reakdowns. Considering a breakdown vid of my own but i sm technologically retarded.

Also when i met Adam i was not a student of his. I attended a seminar. Was invited to attack his most senior student in whatever way i wanted. Had my butt handed to me.

Also half of the people in those seminars are not students of adams but curious people from other arts.

One seminar a random guy who was taller and heavier got thrown about 6 metres away with a finger flick by adams senior disciple. Unfortunately i think the camera missed it .

Also sorry for posting on a very old thread

Thanks adam. Nice summary of your event.

[Ian]

Thrown 6 meters away with a finger flick. lol

[willie]

This is how to explain

http://youtu.be/pOj7GvaK_OU
.

Wayne this guy you posted is pretty good. we have a lot of that stuff.


app's during push hands

[marvin8]

One seminar a random guy who was taller and heavier got thrown about 6 metres away with a finger flick by adams senior disciple. Unfortunately i think the camera missed it .

Ultimately, these IMA demonstrations are to display IMA skills that can be used to defend oneself. To make the argument simpler, let’s say those internal skills, theories and principles work in the demonstration context. IMO, the next step should be to show how these internal skills can be transferred to the martial context. However, this is rarely shown. Adam Mizner shows this in a few of his videos (without the woo woo), beyond push hands, which I appreciate.

Besides Stuart’s analysis (which I do not necessarily agree with), IME, these skills have never been caught on video in sparring or competition. There are many videos showing internal players fighting (e.g., sparring or competition), but the internal players do not show any more skills, than a good external player. You would think there would be at least one video that showed these demonstrated internal skills in sparring or a competition, with a non-compliant opponent.

[willie]

Ultimately, these IMA demonstrations are to display IMA skills that can be used to defend oneself. To make the argument simpler, let’s say those internal skills, theories and principles work in the demonstration context. IMO, the next step should be to show how these internal skills can be transferred to the martial context. However, this is rarely shown. Adam Mizner shows this in a few of his videos (without the woo woo), beyond push hands, which I appreciate.

Besides Stuart’s analysis (which I do not necessarily agree with), IME, these skills have never been caught on video in sparring or competition. There are many videos showing internal players fighting (e.g., sparring or competition), but the internal players do not show any more skills, than a good external player. You would think there would be at least one video that showed these demonstrated internal skills in sparring or a competition, with a non-compliant opponent.

Adam has been doing it a long time, he's good. Better then most of the people who put him down.
I used to talk to him almost everyday about 10-12 years ago. He is a Buddhist. His goal in life is escaping the cycle of rebirth and
attain nirvana. Taiji is vehicle to purify the body to achieve that goal. This is common in true Chinese arts. They are linked
to Daoist and Buddhists beliefs.

[Fatoldkungfuguy]

I certainly agree that a lot of alleged internal fighters do not show the same skill or effect as seen in demos.

That video of Rob? Pushing with Vincent Chu. He claims that mr Chu was not able to repel him but by the video fotage he certainly was. It was also seemed to me that mr Chu was being quite gentle. Not following when Rob disengaged.

I would very much like to see taichi as shown in demos applied in a real non compliant match.

Some of adams vids do show a lot of force with minimal effort but they are i believe still with his students.

I have a training partner from a different art that i always try to use my taichi with.

Although my (and his) skill could best be described as average i do find it very easy to manipulate his balance by attaching to his centre. It is much much harder to apply borrowing force as seen in the demos in real sparring and i only usually succeed in repelling him by luck ; )

Hoping that one day i can prove taiji works myself but im a long way from that point atm.


I would be willing to assist with funding one of you guys attending a semiar of Adams. Not sure exactly how much $$$$ i can contribute but is anyone interested?

[Fatoldkungfuguy]

Thrown 6 meters away with a finger flick. lol

Obviously he is not just fingering him

[Bao]

I would be willing to assist with funding one of you guys attending a semiar of Adams. Not sure exactly how much $$$$ i can contribute but is anyone interested?

Not a good idea.
Hope you don't get someone with the mindset to attend the seminar being an ass and tries to sabotage...

Thrown 6 meters away with a finger flick. lol

Obviously he is not just fingering him

Lol! This is a tough board. Great to see a sense of humor.
The problem is that what you see in different vids how people fly away is too easily faked. If someone don't push away himself solely by himself, he certainly almost always assist the pusher be acting in a certain way because there is always an agreement of how to attack and move. Older students are almost always better to throw away far because they understand this agreement better than beginners. This doesn't mean that things are truly fake or doesn't work. But most people here are allergic to these kind of vids because they are very sensitive to any kind of fake or agreement. Yet some board members fail to understand that there can be a true honesty, and also practice that leads to real skills, behind practice where there are very strict agreements and a seemingly abstract way of training.
(Just speaking in a general manner. I know too little about your teacher to address him or hus school)

[Fatoldkungfuguy]

Someone with a mindset to sabotage.... well i guess i was expecting that. But if thats the case they may be unpleasantly surprised.

I do agree that it can look fake. I certainly even would agree that some demos of some taiji masters may be entirely faked or 100 % compliance.

I would even agree that there is an element of compliance in taiji training as you have to really learn to feel what is happening in your own body and in your opponents body and when your training a skillset together just as in any other MA there needs to be some level of compliance in order to learn the correct structure and biomechanics.

However once it is learned I also believe it has to be pressure tested.

I disagree with long term students being best to throw unless it IS compliance.

Otherwise its harder to get someone who has been training with you a long time because you know each other's movent so well and the skill gap is less.

A lot of the time with a skilled taiji player it looks like people are pushing theselves away because they have been drawn out of their centre while the taiji exponent is grounded. Pushing on someone who is neautralising your force into the ground through their structure will often result in you pushing yourself away.

Can upload some videos of myself attempting to do this? You guys can riducule them all you want

I have no school affiliation at the moment and im certainly no master so you won't hurt my feelings.

[Chuangzu]

I remember Chee Soo used to do this kind of thing when we trained with him in the 1980s.
One day a Wutan Tai Chi teacher Dan Doherty arranged to come to the class but for some strange reason never showed up.
I used to think it was faked until one day he pushed me right onto the floor from about four feet away with no contact whatsoever.
There's an account of a similar thing from 1978 on Patrick Kelly's website who was trained by other teachers and not one of Chee Soo's students as such so you could say he was an independent witness, has anyone seen this or remembers training with Chee Soo at this time?

The most dramatic demonstration of his power occurred at one of his weekend workshops. I almost hesitate to mention it as the more sceptical and insecure among us will, I suppose, choose it as a point of attack. But I cannot deny my own experience and it was this. He had 12 people stand in a large hall, each with their hands on the shoulder of the person in front of them. Then he went into the next room where he stood facing towards the people, some of whom were his pupils and some of whom were not. He had asked me to stand in the doorway with the result that I was the only one to see the whole picture. About 5 seconds after he raised his arm and pointed his palm in the direction of the 12 people - which as they were about 8 to 10 metres away confirms estimates of the speed of this type of Qi at around 0.5 metres per second - they began to lose their balance and everyone fell down. They could only guess what he had been about to do and had no outer knowledge of when he would begin. Then he asked myself and 2 others to place our hands on a large wooden table, again without warning us what would happen. Next he placed his hand on the other end of the table. I felt as if I was hit by a large wave and my body and mind reeled trying to regain my balance, which I was able to do after a few seconds. Looking round I saw the other 2 lying on the ground.

http://www.worldwideway.ch/SAGE/PATRICK ... eesoo.html

[wiesiek]

some peps are sensitive and weak in roots,
they can be throw away even by light breeze,
I can risk and say , that solid fart can send them 30 feet away...

[Finny]

I used to think it was faked until one day he pushed me right onto the floor from about four feet away with no contact whatsoever.

lol