the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Michael Philips breakdown by Stuart Shaw.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefaji ... 756421247/

Adam Mizner woo-woo hop breakdown:

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvide ... e=55A10A4E

Stewie please get to the point a little quicker

dont agree with the summery in the 2nd clip, can not watch the 1st.

couple of questions for the OP

1. have you ever felt this
2. can you do it
3. are you suggesting that all teachers who can do this type of work or demos
are doing the same thing as what the clip suggest

Not interested in the merits of this teacher or any other teacher only the skill itself.

Although Grandmaster Yang had a very quiet and composed style, yet somehow in practicing with him I always felt very unsettled, alarmed and almost frightened, as though I were walking along a high cliff edge and about to lose my footing. Or I felt like a clumsy guy who flails anxiously after he trips into the water. Or I would feel as though buried under a heap of straw. I felt he could blast right through me at any time, and that my life might even be in danger.

But Grandmaster Yang wasn’t worked up in the slightest, he would just keep on rising and falling, following my movements, alternately fullness and emptiness and that’s all. I would be left trying to catch the wind, and groping at shadows, toppling and swaying left and right, as though I were standing in deep water. My movements were entirely under his control, I had no autonomous movement left to me at all.

Now, how can something like I’ve described here be possible? Even today I just don’t understand it at all. I have never in my life found anybody else with this level of skill. Even though I learned from Grandmaster Yang for over a decade, I only achieved maybe 20% or 30% of his skill. We are going to have to really work hard to understand Grandmaster Yang’s teachings in order to avoid the total loss of this art altogether in the future.

"Master Li Yaxuan’s Explanatory Notes on Push Hands"


I would say this describes the same processes used in a different way.

GrahamB wrote:Adam Mizner woo-woo hop breakdown:

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvide ... e=55A10A4E

This link is not working and Facebook apologises. Watched the first link but wanted to watch the second link (the above one) before deciding to give an input. I have footage of Patrick Kelly jamming Haung and receiving a tap in the groin from his walking stick after the demo to let him know not to be cheeky. Do you have this footage link available (Adam Mizner ) as it is in MP4 maybe you have another link to it.

So what do you make out of the clips, Graham?

willywrong wrote: Do you have this footage link available (Adam Mizner ) as it is in MP4 maybe you have another link to it.

You could send him a P.M. and ask him :

"Total posts 386897 • Total topics 22790 • Total members 1812 • Our newest member Stuart_Shaw"

I have lots of thoughts on the clips:

The guys being pushed are clearly hopping, as the breakdowns expose.

Chinese martial arts has always had a performance element. Maybe it's better to just watch the magic show and enjoy it for what it is?

Just because the student hops it doesn't mean the teacher has no skill.

I'm not sure any of this has anything to do with learning to fight.

Stuart had broken down the tricks of lots if famous masters. Best way to view the videos is to join this Facebook group:

The Fajin Project

Here's his breakdown of Chee Soo's chair trick:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefaji ... 329687423/

GrahamB wrote:Stuart had broken down the tricks of lots if famous masters. Best way to view the videos is to join this Facebook group:

The Fajin Project

Here's his breakdown of Chee Soo's chair trick:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefaji ... 329687423/

can he do any of the things he claims to "break down"

If not how can he claim to break them down?

Others who have either felt it or can do it would not agree with his explanations.
why should one have to join face book to watch the clips?

GrahamB wrote:I have lots of thoughts on the clips:

The guys being pushed are clearly hopping, as the breakdowns expose.

Chinese martial arts has always had a performance element. Maybe it's better to just watch the magic show and enjoy it for what it is?

Just because the student hops it doesn't mean the teacher has no skill.

I'm not sure any of this has anything to do with learning to fight.

how it is being exposed if thats what he is doing hopping. The question is not what but why.
I dont agree with his why, he never says he can do it, neither have you.

If either of you could do it, or have done it, it should be rather obvious what the "demo" of a skill set
is attempting to show and how it could be useful.

willywrong wrote:

GrahamB wrote:Adam Mizner woo-woo hop breakdown:

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvide ... e=55A10A4E

This link is not working and Facebook apologises. Watched the first link but wanted to watch the second link (the above one) before deciding to give an input. I have footage of Patrick Kelly jamming Haung and receiving a tap in the groin from his walking stick after the demo to let him know not to be cheeky. Do you have this footage link available (Adam Mizner ) as it is in MP4 maybe you have another link to it.

" after the demo"

Is it ok to "jam" someone trying to do a demo?
Here is a demo where the teacher is signaling which side to to attack on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-UJ4NCCMA0

GrahamB wrote: Best way to view the videos is to join this Facebook group:
The Fajin Project

I've been there. Grown ass men posting a bunch of clips just to ridicule them. Very much the opposite to what I, IMHO, would call serious and mostly attitudes beyond childish.

windwalker wrote:why should one have to join face book to watch the clips?

There's no reason to join Facebook, join that group or watch videos there.

windwalker wrote:Is it ok to "jam" someone trying to do a demo?

Good question. If you have some kind of class and integrity it wouldn't.

GrahamB wrote:The guys being pushed are clearly hopping, as the breakdowns expose.

Not so much. His analysis in the first video - the one I could see - is wrong from the initial premise.

He states that the teacher pushing is "shearing" the partner - the guy being pushed - along the ground. He isn't. He misunderstands the physics involved. His analysis then proceeds to show how the guy being slid along the ground ("sheared" in his terminology) isn't, but is actually hopping.

Consider an alternative to shearing/being slid across the ground by the push. Consider a rigid, heavy statue. Push on the upper portion of the statue. Unless the friction between the ground and the statue is very low - e.g. sitting on ice - the statue will tip before it slides ("shears") along the ground. If you analyze the pushing that goes on in terms of tipping, rather than sliding, the situation is entirely consistent with someone being tipped. As one is tipped, the distance from the torso to the front foot increases. Consistent with that is that the person being pushed straightens the forward leg to maintain contact with the ground. This is what happens in the video. As one is tipped, the shoulders move away from the person pushing. The person being pushed, if they maintain hand contact with the pusher, will extend their arms, exactly as is done in the video. What can be gleaned from the video is that one should not be a rigid statue, else they can be tipped - probably not really the intended focus of the video.

Does any of this analysis matter? I don't see how. Seems to me like a complete waste of time. Train what you train. If you find it doesn't meet your needs, train something else.

He misunderstands the physics involved

exactly

whether something is a wast of time IMO depends if they have felt it or can do it.
The understanding of how something is done comes from this. In the demo as in most demos
its a kind of dramatic way of showing an effect as all "demos" are.

Charles, I don't really understand what he was talking about with the shearing comment, however, if you tip a statue over it still won't hop, it should fall backwards.