Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

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Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby nicklinjm on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:42 am

Just came across an interesting article on M Chen Zhonghua's Practical Method website about the 'Pushing Hands' challenges that his school has encountered while teaching practical method in various places in Shandong province, including several videos of the challenges.

The article is here: http://practicalmethod.com/2015/02/about-challenges/

And a couple of the videos are shown below:







Can anyone with experience of Hong Junsheng's Practical Method go into a bit more details about the skills / techniques being used in these challenges?
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby Bhassler on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:02 am

I've had limited experience playing with one of Chen Zhonghua's students, and I can say that it's not the same as the village or the Beijing variants of Chen TJQ, and it's also not shuai-jiao and it's not muscle/technique based. I have my own impressions and am not really comfortable articulating what they're all about based on my limited exposure, but it's cool stuff and he seems to produce guys who can actually use it, which is nice.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby Patrick on Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:08 am

Who is who?

and it's also not shuai-jiao


I could have sworn there were many leg trips/sweeps that remined me of judo/shuai jiao etc. ;D
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby AJG on Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:58 am

It's shuai jiao
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby middleway on Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:12 am

Vid two was the most interesting. An obviously larger, thicker set opponent couldn't really use his method and was consistently compromising himself to try and get the take down.

Looks like simple lower level wrestling/stand up grappling work. Good on them for testing it but I'm not seeing much unique or advanced to it.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby C.J.W. on Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:04 am

Bhassler wrote:I've had limited experience playing with one of Chen Zhonghua's students, and I can say that it's not the same as the village or the Beijing variants of Chen TJQ, and it's also not shuai-jiao and it's not muscle/technique based. I have my own impressions and am not really comfortable articulating what they're all about based on my limited exposure, but it's cool stuff and he seems to produce guys who can actually use it, which is nice.


IMO, CZH has incorporated some of the key body mechanics from other Taiji systems into his Chen style. A lot of the stuff he talks about in his videos is identical to the materials taught only to indoor disciples in the Yang and Wu lineages I've been exposed to in Taiwan.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby Overlord on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:48 am

Yes, I agree , CJW, even from laoliulu, with his own interpretation on application too.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby windwalker on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:50 am

Overlord wrote:Yes, I agree , CJW, even from laoliulu, with his own interpretation on application too.


agree

using a different set of ideas would tend to present very different ways of viewing things.
Even in the other styles mentioned it can be quite different depending on level and depth of ones practice.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby nicklinjm on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:35 am

CJW, what kind of body mechanics do you mean? If you're not comfortable discussing it on this thread I'd be happy to continue by PM.

Given that CZH has (AFAIK) only ever studied Chen style (from Hong Junsheng and later Feng Zhiqiang), would be very interesting indeed if this was the case.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby Bhassler on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:47 am

middleway wrote:Looks like simple lower level wrestling/stand up grappling work. Good on them for testing it but I'm not seeing much unique or advanced to it.


Seeing and feeling are two different things, as I'm sure you know.
.....

One thing that I like about CZH is that he puts his students out there and expects them to make mistakes and/or do it wrong. It's almost as if he wants people to learn even more than he wants to be famous on the internet.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby Wanderingdragon on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:13 am

You don't see internal, :-\ you see the absence of muscle work 8-)
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby dspyrido on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:29 pm

Suggest reading the article. There's an undercurrent of interesting cultural chinese mindset stuff going on here that explains what is going on.
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby willywrong on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:23 pm

dspyrido wrote:Suggest reading the article. There's an undercurrent of interesting cultural chinese mindset stuff going on here that explains what is going on.


Your right and only a fool would accept a challenge with rules. :)
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby windwalker on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:06 pm

rule 19
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Re: Practical Method - Push Hands Challenges (Daqingshan)

Postby windwalker on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:12 pm

These people will normally watch a bit and then either issue a challenge or just leave. In this case, the head person decided to issue a challenge. A challenge is not formal like in the movies. The challenger will simply give a high praise to a move and ask the instructor to try it on him.

This is highly unfair as the instructor has shown his move and the move is for showing the application of a move in the form. He is in this case, expected to demonstrate that move on the uncooperative challenger. He cannot use a different move, however. It would be considered cheating. So again it is very difficult for the instructor to respond but he cannot refuse.

http://practicalmethod.com/2015/02/about-challenges/

kind of reminds me of some things related on RSF by some attending seminars
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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