Dai~Xinyi

[Overlord]

Can see how Xingyi progressed from Dai Xinyi~
Very comprehensive!

[middleway]

Nice. Skimmed through but can see myself spending some time looking at this.

One thing I notice in dai style is the effect the body method seems to have on the spine. Some kyphosis going on in the practitioners don't your think? It may be the sacrifice for the skill which is fine if willing to accept it.

Thanks

[I-mon]

Nice. Skimmed through but can see myself spending some time looking at this.

One thing I notice in dai style is the effect the body method seems to have on the spine. Some kyphosis going on in the practitioners don't your think? It may be the sacrifice for the skill which is fine if willing to accept it.

Thanks

I don't think so at all. None of the practitioners I've met have developed a structural kyphosis, and my own practice of the squatting monkey body method hasn't done it at all - the spine goes through deep flexion to maximal axial elongation in each movement. Keeping the spine in some flexion is pretty normal and effective as a fighting posture for lots of reasons, but I don't think that's got anything to do with an actual kyphotic deformity.

Amazing how much Dai style is on the youtubes these days, I remember when there was next to none, just a few years ago.

[bviru_xin]

Thanks for sharing. Great clip. Is Dai style more on close quarter strikes (knees and elbows) ? The masters hands are so fast - from 1:31:30 ..

[BonesCom]

For some reason I can't see the vid, I'm having plugin issues.

Someone mentioned fast hands, is it a bald chap in a courtyard? IIRC this is one of Wang Yinghai's tudi.

Regarding kyphosis: I agree with Chris with the following caveat, most of what is on the web comes through Wang Yinghai, I have always felt that he/they do not emphasise the pelvic rolling of squatting monkey enough, rather they compensate by pushing the thoracic portion of the spine back rather than pushing out closer to the mingmen point hence most of their student do in fact develop a type of kyphosis, albeit not a skeletal deformity more a muscular one akin to those working on computers. The fact that you, Imon, have not developed such posture is probably because you are a lot more mobile in the upper back region (because of the other movement stuff you do, but also you are probably more aware of not developing such a posture. The other criticism I have of WYH's school is that they over emphasise the contraction phase and under emphasise the expansion phase even in their slow practice. When performing kaui jin this is somewhat understandable, you sacrifice full expansion for speed and power.

Out of interest Imon, who taught you squatting monkey?

[somatai]

Nice! As to kyphosis. Developing extreme closing along the ventral surface(spinal flexion)creates maximal length and relaxation when one is not consciously closing. The problem would be that one is copying what they see as a posture rather than using the three plains and three reflexes to fully open and develop the body. IMO flexion is a great place to awaken the body because it is more volition a land familiar,tension is active and relaxation passive but intentional(mental) and as they say the body reveals the min. Admittedly one can start at either end but this is why I believe xin yi does what it does.

[I-mon]

For some reason I can't see the vid, I'm having plugin issues.

Someone mentioned fast hands, is it a bald chap in a courtyard? IIRC this is one of Wang Yinghai's tudi.

Regarding kyphosis: I agree with Chris with the following caveat, most of what is on the web comes through Wang Yinghai, I have always felt that he/they do not emphasise the pelvic rolling of squatting monkey enough, rather they compensate by pushing the thoracic portion of the spine back rather than pushing out closer to the mingmen point hence most of their student do in fact develop a type of kyphosis, albeit not a skeletal deformity more a muscular one akin to those working on computers. The fact that you, Imon, have not developed such posture is probably because you are a lot more mobile in the upper back region (because of the other movement stuff you do, but also you are probably more aware of not developing such a posture. The other criticism I have of WYH's school is that they over emphasise the contraction phase and under emphasise the expansion phase even in their slow practice. When performing kaui jin this is somewhat understandable, you sacrifice full expansion for speed and power.

Out of interest Imon, who taught you squatting monkey?

Agreed - but a "habitual way of standing and moving" is very different to a spinal deformity. You can see old mate in the video is perfectly capable of standing up straight. Still, habitually keeping the spine in flexion might well lead to serious kyphosis in old age as the bones start to lose density, which is what you guys are saying I guess.

Bones I first learned the bare basics of the squatting monkey exercise from Jarek back when I was in Shanghai in '05, then spent a few months learning from Evan Chen when he was visiting Taipei (and Luo Dexiu was away teaching overseas). Did a little bit more a year or two ago with Sudan Jeffers when he was visiting Australia. I've never dedicated much time to it - serious daily practice for several months at a time, a few times over - but it's integrated pretty well with my xingyi (and my capoeira), and I view it these days as being an exaggerated version of the "opening the three gates" exercise practiced in the yizong system. Although obviously it's developed to a much greater degree in Dai family xinyi than anywhere else (that I've seen), I think it's present in a lot of arts, and the basic mechanic of the "spinal bow" could even be considered a fundamental human movement.

[BonesCom]

Imon, cool.

For such a seemingly simple exercise there is a lot to it, I can see where you're coming from. My own practice consists of some basic jibengong exercises/stretches etc.. and mostly squatting monkey and stepping after that. Though I have only learnt five elements, si ba, one of the shoulder methods (technically two as one is in the jibengong I do) and long xing. But the more you do squatting monkey the more you realise that it is the core to all other movements and all the other movements (the one I have learnt at least) are mostly variations on the movements in squatting monkey. But all the movements have the core skills/strength/flexibility developed from squatting monkey. It's a good example of a movement that is almost entirely non-martial but is indispensable to the martial movements.