Ethics and real skill in martial arts

[shawnsegler]

Great talk.

[GrahamB]

Hmm... Can't help feeling that bad guys who want to learn how to hurt people aren't exactly flocking to learn Chen Taiji....

[shawnsegler]

I beg to differ, Graham.

Every martial art tends to draw its own unique groupings of psychological types to it for lots of different reasons.

Boxers have generally tended to be from the lower classes because it's a way out of poverty. BJJ at this point is a middle/upper class art because its rep commands high class prices. Judo are wrestling and both collegiate and so that effects who comes to it.

The biggest problem though, is that martial arts in general draw to it people who have at some point in their lives suffered some sort of psychological damage and that they see martial arts as a means to power...power to heal the fright they feel, power to hurt those who hurt them, power to allow them to bask in the feeling of power..the confidence of the strong backing up a narcissism that is the core of their ego.

Etc..etc...etc..

You have the group that wants a father. The Sifu is a dad they never had...this is one step from cult leader, but I've seen it and there's obviously a need. There's the LARP'ers who want to dress up in silk jammies etc, etc, etc....

So if we use our brains and experience we can generally see who gravitates to which art. Chen taiji in my experience draws a lot of people with ego. They want the power that comes from fighting, but it has to be the most legendarily powerful form of internal boxing, and it's got to be internal because thugs do wrestling or boxing, it's got to be a cut above and borderline magical...these are the lineage queens par excellence. The ones who want to lord what they have over others when they get it.

Now obviously these are sweeping generalizations but they have more than a grain of truth in it. I wouldn't say that even half of the people who go into a given art are the crazy ones that you can work up from this kind of thinking but there's always a few that are right on the money and if you're a famous teacher of high skill the amount of people you see is higher and so is the number of crazies.

Anyway you can apply this to just about every art. Think about the general nature of "Most" of the wing-chun guys we've run into here...what does that say? Etc, etc, etc...


Best,

S

[Spncr]

I'm starting to think that you got smacked by some sub-par wing chun lineage queen at some point and that you've never quite dealt with it emotionally...

Good talk though, your rambling response to G wasn't too bad either

[GrahamB]

Well there are 2 issues:

Can you get good at Taiiji (any style) and still be a massive dick? Yes, we all know those guys.

And 2:

Can you learn something that will make you somehow dangerous to other people?

I'd say, in general, no you can't.

Who would you rather be attacked by, a psychotic rapist/serial killer with 10 years taiji training or one that is a black belt in jujitsu? I know who is rather face...

[Bao]

Chen taiji in my experience draws a lot of people with ego. They want the power that comes from fighting, but it has to be the most legendarily powerful form of internal boxing,

My experience as well. There are certain types of people who are attracted to the powerful expression.
... I usually hate these generalisations.... But it's also provocative in a nice, satisfactory way....

[Dmitri]

martial arts in general draw to it people who have at some point in their lives suffered some sort of psychological damage and that they see martial arts as a means to power...power to heal

Agreed. I've been thinking about this lately, and realized that I might have actually reached that "point of healing", where those particular incidents and experiences really don't bother me anymore, on any level. I'm linking to that because I'm noticing more and more that MA in general is almost completely lost its appeal for me in the recent years, and while gradual reduction of testosterone levels related to aging probably has its say in this matter, I really think that this "healing" thing is by far more prominent factor in this new, almost unexpected, development.

Forgive the diversion (haven't listened to the talk in the OP...)

[Wanderingdragon]

The door slammed in your face or on your fingers, Cast iron skillets, bedside lamps, heavy metal car age cans, in the home hand guns, large well sharpened kitchen knives , long strong finger nails in the face and eyes, scissors in the ears, teeth biting down hard any where on the body, JEEZUS Graham, anywhere but in the ring or the gym a BJJ guy is vulnerable no matter what color belt he is.

[Dmitri]

...hot oatmeal in the face, an ultra mega wedgie, some Vogon poetry... the list goes on!

[shawnsegler]

I'm starting to think that you got smacked by some sub-par wing chun lineage queen at some point and that you've never quite dealt with it emotionally...

Good talk though, your rambling response to G wasn't too bad either

Of where one does not know one should shut ones piehole.

I said, as I usually say when speaking of wing chun people, "we've run into here" which was directed at Graham. You've been a year, we've been here since the 90's, and in that time there've been a lot of wing chun crazies.

There's a couple reasonable Wing Chun guys here but in general some of the craziest people we've run into on this board have been wing chun practitioners.

S

[Dmitri]

[GrahamB]

The door slammed in your face or on your fingers, Cast iron skillets, bedside lamps, heavy metal car age cans, in the home hand guns, large well sharpened kitchen knives , long strong finger nails in the face and eyes, scissors in the ears, teeth biting down hard any where on the body, JEEZUS Graham, anywhere but in the ring or the gym a BJJ guy is vulnerable no matter what color belt he is.

As usual, I have no clue as to what planet you are on...

None of those things are part of the chen style tai chi curriculum I'm familiar with. Must be a special school...

[GrahamB]

I'm starting to think that you got smacked by some sub-par wing chun lineage queen at some point and that you've never quite dealt with it emotionally...

Good talk though, your rambling response to G wasn't too bad either

Of where one does not know one should shut ones piehole.

I said, as I usually say when speaking of wing chun people, "we've run into here" which was directed at Graham. You've been a year, we've been here since the 90's, and in that time there've been a lot of wing chun crazies.

There's a couple reasonable Wing Chun guys here but in general some of the craziest people we've run into on this board have been wing chun practitioners.

S

I guess the jokes on us - we're still here - ha ha

[Steve James]

Well, the reason most people study martial arts is because they perceive they are weak.

Afa who'd I rather fight? I'd rather fight the bjj guy who wants to put me to sleep than the tcc guy who wants to kill me.

The joke of martial arts is that we're all still here, even the wimpy tcc guys. And, we'll all be gone, no matter which martial arts we study. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for what you practice.

[Wanderingdragon]

The door slammed in your face or on your fingers, Cast iron skillets, bedside lamps, heavy metal car age cans, in the home hand guns, large well sharpened kitchen knives , long strong finger nails in the face and eyes, scissors in the ears, teeth biting down hard any where on the body, JEEZUS Graham, anywhere but in the ring or the gym a BJJ guy is vulnerable no matter what color belt he is.

As usual, I have no clue as to what planet you are on...

None of those things are part of the chen style tai chi curriculum I'm familiar with. Must be a special school...

The point is, no matter how carRAZY he is, most BJJ guys are trained merely for sport. But wait, on the other hand a rapist? Yeah I guess the training is fitting for such a crime.