Aikido

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Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:11 am

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Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:25 am

Watch to the end - it didn't end the way I thought it was going to end.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bao on Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:06 am

Wow... It makes sense ... IMHO ... :o
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Re: Aikido

Postby grzegorz on Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:54 pm

GrahamB wrote:Watch to the end - it didn't end the way I thought it was going to end.


I agree with the conclusion and see kf in the same light. If you're young and love competition then do MMA but if you are not interested in doing steroids then do a traditional art.

I'm joking of course but obviously MMA has a couple issues too.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:18 am

I got to 40 seconds in and the narrator doesn't have a clue about Ueshiba. Ueshiba didn't master all those arts he listed. Ueshiba dabbled in everything except Daito ryu. Sokaku Takeda taught him Daito ryu and aiki. Then at 1 minute in, they try to compare aikido to jujutsu. Do the research. Around 1942, the Japanese (who like to classify everything) didn't know what to do with Daito ryu and Aikido because it was NOT like classical jujutsu. So, the governing body created a new name and classification ... and called that aikido. Then, at 4:50, the narrator states Ueshiba didn't approve any competition. They should have done more research into all the various Japanese definitions of "competition". Ueshiba did approve of some "competition". And Ueshiba, by the time the war was over, had already proven himself in challenges. Another point is that while teaching Daito ryu (Ueshiba issued rank certificates stating Daito ryu on them) all the way up to the 1940s, he had two views on competition, fights, and testing oneself. The public view was that it was not approved. The non-public view was that hew as proud of his students when they came back from a fight or testing themselves and had won.

As to the students after the war ... Tokyo was under Kisshomaru's control and was not teaching Ueshiba's aikido. Most of what you see out in the world is the aikido as approved and taught from Tokyo. That wasn't Ueshiba's aikido.

And then we get to the 6 minute mark of the video. Grandmaster 10th dan soke? Seriously? They're pointing to a fraudulently ranked person to uphold the martial side of aikido? So far, from the video, it's a total fail for Ueshiba's aikido.

At 6:30, they ramble on about the "spiritual" side of aikido yet are totally clueless to Ueshiba's view. Ueshiba said "kami" but yet when one of the few translated works came out, often that "kami" which everyone took for the spirits/gods/etc was written as fire/water. Yin/yang. In/yo. Ueshiba talked about Izanami and Izanagi but reference them as yin/yang. When Kono asked why they (the students) couldn't do what Ueshiba could do, Ueshiba answered, "because you don't understand yin/yang". Neither does the creators of this video.

It's hilarious that around the 7 minute mark, the narrator is waxing poetic about the "spiritual" side while showing Ueshiba twirling the short spear. Ueshiba is showing the world that he's training aiki with that short spear. The aiki as passed down from Sokaku Takeda. That aiki was the entire basis of his spirituality. Aiki infused his spirituality. His entire training regimen that he took (he removed quite a bit of Daito ryu techniques) from Daito ryu was all specifically and 100% related to training aiki.

The creators of this video should have done their research and left Ueshiba out of the whole thing. They should have stuck with their message in relation to Modern Aikido. If they stick to Modern Aikido, the video is appropriate. But, once they referenced Morihei Ueshiba, they got everything wrong. And I do mean everything.

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Re: Aikido

Postby grzegorz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:22 am

Are there any videos of these challenges? Because an aikido practitioner on Joe Rogan's podcast also made the claim that O Sensei took on challenge matches and there is video evidence but they couldn't seem to be able to find it.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24005&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=joe+rogan

As far as everything I doubt anyone outside of the aikido really cares. I mean no offense but like taiji people arguing about the original taiji I do not think any of this type of stuff really matters to most people, which I believe the video is for I think the video was mostly for the MMA crowd as a way of saying we (the aikido world) can co-exist with you.

As someone who seems to have a career as a delivery driver which involves both driving and lifting and moving heavy fragile items the message appeals to me because as much as I love judo and bjj I don't really see the point in risking getting injured by someone half my age on steroids getting ready for a competition who doesn't care that I can't get injured.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:06 pm

Greg - you need to reframe your reality - lol :)

Watch this:

http://youtu.be/wMEq1mGpP5A
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Re: Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:10 pm

grzegorz wrote:Are there any videos of these challenges? Because an aikido practitioner on Joe Rogan's podcast also made the claim that O Sensei took on challenge matches and there is video evidence but they couldn't seem to be able to find it.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24005&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=joe+rogan

As far as everything I doubt anyone outside of the aikido really cares. I mean no offense but like taiji people arguing about the original taiji I do not think any of this type of stuff really matters to most people, which I believe the video is for I think the video was mostly for the MMA crowd as a way of saying we (the aikido world) can co-exist with you.

As someone who seems to have a career as a delivery driver which involves both driving and lifting and moving heavy fragile items the message appeals to me because as much as I love judo and bjj I don't really see the point in risking getting injured by someone half my age on steroids getting ready for a competition who doesn't care that I can't get injured.


Stan Pranin of Aikido Journal has a DVD of all the back issues. There are interviews with the pre-war students who talk about some of the challenges Ueshiba had. No videos as far as I know. Most of Ueshiba's videos are after the war, when he'd retired. Long past his younger days.

As for the message. I don't ever equate good or bad with Modern Aikido. It has millions of people studying it. Has to have something going for it. :) But, I think we need to make the distinction that Ueshiba's aikido is very different from Modern Aikido. So, the video posted has nothing to do with Ueshiba's aikido and is completely wrong in its message for Ueshiba's vision. However, Kisshomaru changed a lot of Ueshiba's vision into something that the whole world could understand. And millions did flock to it. Not good or bad, but the two visions of aikido are completely different.
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Re: Aikido

Postby grzegorz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:18 pm

GrahamB wrote:Greg - you need to reframe your reality - lol :)

Watch this:

http://youtu.be/wMEq1mGpP5A


I wish that were true but I've so many high calibre people get jacked at my gyms to where I think if I were to keep going my number would come up too but I do miss it!
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:51 pm

grzegorz wrote:
GrahamB wrote:Greg - you need to reframe your reality - lol :)

Watch this:

http://youtu.be/wMEq1mGpP5A


I wish that were true but I've so many high calibre people get jacked at my gyms to where I think if I were to keep going my number would come up too but I do miss it!


You think that matters?

Image

LOL ;D
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Re: Aikido

Postby grzegorz on Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:47 am

Nice!
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Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:16 pm

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Re: Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:00 pm

The Ueshiba Legacy

There are two Ueshiba Legacies. The legacy of Morihei Ueshiba and the legacy of Kisshomaru Ueshiba. The two are completely different. Their paths rarely cross, with only a smattering of commonalities.

A: The Words

From the translation on the Sangenkai website, “Aikido is the way of harmony, that is to say the living form of Ichirei Shikon Sangen Hachiriki, the form of the fabric of the universe, specifically the form of the High Plain of Heaven.”(1) Ueshiba would talk about this often. He explained Hachiriki as “The 8 powers are opposing forces: Movement – Stillness, Melting – Congealing, Pulling – Loosening, Combining – Splitting / 9-1, 8-2, 7-3, 6-4” (1). Note that the 8 powers are 4 pairs of opposites.

When Henry Kono asked O-Sensei “Why can we not do what you do, Sensei?” the answer was quite simply “Because you don’t understand In and Yo.” (2) Opposing forces. One of Ueshiba’s dokas was “Manifest yo (yang) in the right hand, change the left hand to in (yin) and guide the opponent.”

More from what Ueshiba said: “Aikido is the Way and Principle of harmonizing Heaven, Earth and Man.” Ueshiba talked about Izanami and Izanagi. He talked about The Floating Bridge of Heaven. He talked about kami, which was often written as ka (fire) and mi (water). Whether doing the famous pre-war era or during the post-war era, Morihei Ueshiba described his aikido by using a specific spiritual ideology.

Rinjiro Shirata, another pre-war student, gives some more details about Ueshiba's teaching style. We never practiced techniques in any specific order. It was not a practice where we were taught. As I told you before, Ueshiba had his own training. Therefore, he practiced techniques as he wanted. That was his training. Ueshiba Sensei's way of explaining techniques was first of all to give the names of kamisama (deities). After that, he explained the movement. He told us, "Aikido originally didn't have any form. The movements of the body in response to one's state of mind became the techniques. (3)

Shioda’s thoughts about Ueshiba: As mentioned earlier, at the Ueshiba Dojo in the old days we didn't explicitly have any pre-set forms. The only thing the students could do was copy the techniques that Sensei performed on their own. In terms of instruction, the only thing we were told was to "become one with heaven and earth." (4)

From an article in Black Belt magazine about training in post-war: The first class is usually taken up mostly with discussions about God and nature - Uyeshiba doing the talking and the uchideshi listening. It is in this hour that the young uchideshi is exposed to Zen philosophy and the deeper meanings of aikido - its nonviolent and defensive perfection and understanding.

If this all sounds rather remote and difficult to grasp for a Western reader, he may be interested to know that the young Japanese uchideshi often feels the same way. The 83-year-old Uyeshiba many times speaks about highly abstract topics, lapsing usually into ancient Japanese phraseology, so that his listeners often find it difficult to follow him. (5)

Robert Frager also talks about his training and Ueshiba's incomprehensible speeches. I understood very little of his talks. Osensei used a great many esoteric Shinto terms, and he spoke with a strong regional accent. His teachings were pitched at a philosophical, mystical level, far above my beginner's concerns about where I had to place my hands and feet. I puzzled over statements like, "When you practice Aikido, you stand on the floating bridge between heaven and earth," and "Put the Shinto Goddess 'She-who-invites' in your left foot and the God
'He-who-approaches' in your right foot." (6)

Walther Krenner notes that Ueshiba would sometimes come in and talk for a long time. (7) Kisshomaru Ueshiba also talks about his father's baffling spiritual experiences. (8) Yoji Tomosue also found it difficult to understand Ueshiba. (9) Tamura relates that the young students didn't understand what Ueshiba was saying. (10) There is an interesting interview with Henry Kono in an Aikido Today magazine.

ATM: When you had conversations like these with O'sensei, what would you talk about?
HK: Well, I would usually ask him why the rest of us couldn't do what he could. There were many other teachers, all doing aikido. But he was doing it differently - doing something differently. His movement was so clean!
ATM: How would O'sensei answer your questions about what he was doing?
HK: He would say that I didn't understand yin and yang [in and yo]. So, now I've made it my life work to study yin and yang. That's what O'sensei told me to do. (11)

Looking back to the pre-war era, one would think that Ueshiba would have been much easier to understand. However we have to remember that Ueshiba had about ten years before the Kobukan dojo opened to refine his spiritual ideology. Takako Kunigoshi states that there wasn't anyone who could understand Ueshiba. (12) Shirata remembers Ueshiba giving the names of kamisama as explanations. (13) Mochizuki considered Ueshiba a "primitive genius who couldn't explain anything." (14) In fact, Mochizuki goes on to say that Ueshiba wouldn't explain but would rather say it came from God. (15) (16)

Ueshiba stated: The left hand is Izanagi, the right is Izanami, in the center is Ame-no-minakanushi, this is yourself. This is standing on the Floating Bridge of Heaven and turning in a spiral. This is called Taka-ama-hara. Heaven and earth are one unit, water and fire are also one unit, all appears through Iki (breath). This is the endless appearance of the Kami. Aiki technique comes forth endlessly. (17)

More from Ueshiba: It is said that Aikido must first stand on the Floating Bridge of Heaven. It is said that the Floating Bridge of Heaven is the exchange of Fire and Water. Precisely in the form of a cross, it is the world of Fire and Water in harmony. In other words, it is said the this world is created through the two actions of the twin gods Takami-Musubi and Kami-Musubi winding up in a spiral on the right and winding down in a spiral on the left. Fire (“Ka”) and Water (“mi”) become “Kami”, the source of this “Kami” (Fire and Water) returns to the one, but the one becomes the source of the physical and the spiritual. (18)

No matter if we look at the pre-war period or the post-war one, we find that Ueshiba's spiritual ideology hindered his students understanding of what to work on in training aiki. Hardly anyone ever really understood what Ueshiba meant by his explanations.

Regarding the worldwide version of aikido that was disseminated after Morihei Ueshibas death, from around 1970 on, how often has a student of aikido been frustrated to understand Izanami, Izanagi, kami, Hachiriki, or the Floating Bridge of Heaven from their instructor? How often has those terms actually come up? If they ever have (which is rare), how were they explained?

Kisshomaru Ueshiba was given control over the Tokyo dojo and he changed many things. One of those was the actual message of his father. As a brief explanation, this was after the war when Japan had lost and was in turmoil. Martial arts were mostly banned. The Tokyo dojo was in shambles. Kisshomaru picked up the pieces, put them back together, and from his experiences during the war, changed aikido’s message to something the world could embrace – which it did by millions of people.

The fact remains that the words and vision of aikido between Morihei Ueshiba and what was spread throughout the world, Modern Aikido for lack of a better term, are completely different.


(1) http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/aik ... -universe/
(2) “Aikido Memoirs” by Alan Ruddock
(3) Aiki News Issue 062
(4) Aikido Shugyo by Gozo Shioda
(5) Black Belt 1966 Vol 4 No 5
(6) Yoga Journal March 1982
(7) Training with the Master by John Stevens
(8) Aiki News Issue 031
(9) Aiki News Issue 031
(10) Aiki News Issue 066
(11) Aikido Today Magazine; #31 Dec.93/ Jan. 94.
(12) Aiki News 047
(13) Aiki News Issue 062
(14) Black Belt 1980 Vol 18 No 4
(15) Black Belt 1980 Vol 18 No 4
(16) Black Belt 1989 Vol 27 No 8
(17) http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/aik ... ge-heaven/
(18) http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/mor ... way-cross/



B: The Training


According to an Aikikai estimate, 1.2 million people are practicing aikido worldwide, but that probably doesn't include non-Aikikai related schools. Still, at a minimum, millions of people are training aikido. If we focus on all those millions of aikido people taking "ukemi" for 40 to 50 years and that some of them spent quite a bit more time training with their teachers than pre-war or post-war students did with Ueshiba, then where are the people that rival Gozo Shioda or Kenji Tomiki's abilities, let alone the skill level of Morihei Ueshiba? How many of the millions who have trained and learned the outward physical techniques of aikido for 40-50 years have replicated Ueshiba's exploits?

What happens when we look at all the people who are studying misogi-no-gyo or Omoto kyo or Zen meditation? If we focus on those people, you still have no one who has achieved Ueshiba's abilities. How many people who focused on the spiritual only and practiced misogi exercises have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? We can turn to one of Ueshiba's students for an answer. Around 1952, Seiseki Abe says this about talking to Ueshiba, "How did you ever learn such a wonderful budo", and he answered, "Through misogi." Now I had been doing misogi since 1941 and when I heard that Aikido came from misogi, suddenly "snap", the two came together. (1)

Seiseki Abe had been doing misogi for at least 10 years prior to training in aikido and wasn't at all near Ueshiba's skills or abilities, nor did he even see misogi and aikido as being similar. However, under Ueshiba's tutelage, Seiseki Abe continued to grow as a martial artist. We can see from this that something that Ueshiba knew and had trained was the underlying basis for powering his misogi exercises. Other people who did not have that certain something did not grow to replicate Ueshiba's abilities. Looking at Omoto kyo, how many people who don't practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? How many Omoto kyo people who do practice techniques have replicated Ueshiba's abilities? Yet, when we look at Ueshiba's peers, we find that they did replicate exploits and abilities. Those peers did not practice Omoto kyo nor misogi. What they did practice was exercises for Daito ryu aiki. This aiki was the power behind Ueshiba's misogi and not the other way around.

Now, if we look at the millions of aikido people practicing techniques day after day, year after year, decade after decade and not replicating Ueshiba's abilities, isn't it time to accept the truth that Morihei Ueshiba’s aikido and Modern Aikido are very different.

The focus on techniques was a modern change instilled into what became Modern Aikido for the world. Ueshiba never preached techniques. In fact, his art was formless. Students griped that they rarely saw a technique twice. When asked about techniques, Ueshiba's reply showed the overwhelming nature of trying to learn them all. He said, "There are about 3,000 basic techniques, and each of them has 16 variations ... so there are many thousands. Depending on the situation, you create new ones." (2)

Rinjiro Shirata explained his memories of early training with Ueshiba: We never practiced techniques in any specific order. It was not a practice where we were taught. As I told you before, Ueshiba had his own training. Therefore, he practiced techniques as he wanted. That was his training. Ueshiba Sensei's way of explaining techniques was first of all to give the names of kamisama (deities). After that, he explained the movement. He told us, "Aikido originally didn't have any form. The movements of the body in response to one's state of mind became the techniques. (3)
and
Since Aikido is formless, we move according to how we feel. (3)
and
Ueshiba Sensei didn't have techniques. He said: "There are no techniques. What you express each time is a technique. (4)

Kanshu Sunadomari remarked that if you stick to form, you only get the old style martial arts. He also talked about Ueshiba and training: O-Sensei said, "Aiki is to teach the basis for the creation of budo in which techniques are born as one moves." So you have to understand the basis for the creation of techniques. The basis is kokyu power. There is nothing else. When you develop kokyu power, countless techniques emerge. You can't create techniques only by doing the forms of the past. (5)

Shioda notes that in pre-war training, there were no pre-set forms. They had to mimic what Ueshiba did. (6) In turn, David Lynch states that Shioda developed a systemized curriculum to help new students learn better. (7) If we address the actual issue of techniques, it's interesting to find what two main aikido instructors thought about them.

Kisshomaru Ueshiba: It was around 1937 or 1938 that I began to practice Aikido seriously. I had already learned techniques by then. One can learn techniques in two or three years. (8)

Koichi Tohei: ... the physical techniques can be easily learned within a short time span, like other Martial Arts. (9)

Koichi Tohei: When I visited Chicago a few months ago, four Ohioans came to study under me and I was surprised because they knew the techniques quite well. When I inquired who taught them, they said that they had learned it from my book. One person would read while the others practiced the techniques. They didn't reveal any major faults in their movements. (10)

As merely a technicality, one could say that Ueshiba taught techniques. A major point of fact as shown by the various schools of aikido, Ueshiba had to have taught something or else they wouldn't have a technique based curriculum. As a matter of actual truth, though? No, Ueshiba didn't teach techniques. He viewed his art as formless and where his body moved, his training partner created the openings for techniques to happen. The students did the best that they could with what Ueshiba gave them. Since he wasn't really teaching the secrets, the students mimicked the forms and trained techniques. It was the students who developed a curriculum by writing down techniques and sorting them into some type of syllabus.

In the pre-war era, there weren't that many hours of being taught by Ueshiba but rather many hours of practice with peers and seniors. It was mentioned that pre-war students often did techniques with seniors. We can see on film how Ueshiba "taught". Who actually learned techniques from Ueshiba in those films or did the students just mimic what they saw? Many of the students of Ueshiba complained that he wouldn't show a technique twice. We also must consider Mochizuki complaining that Ueshiba completely pared down the Daito ryu techniques into a much small number. If techniques were Ueshiba's focus, then why did he trim so much? Why didn't he set some sort of curriculum? Why did he say his art was formless?

If we shift our focus to consider the post-war era when Ueshiba was in Iwama, who taught at Tokyo? When Ueshiba was traveling around, who taught at Iwama or Tokyo? How about the training schedule at Tokyo where Ueshiba only "taught" the morning class? Even then, many of the students complained he talked away most of the time. Who actually put together a jo and bokken syllabus in Iwama? Saito did.

We can also look at another example to show that Ueshiba wasn't focused on techniques at all but rather his vision of aikido. At a demonstration in Manchuria, Ohba, as uke, showed that Ueshiba had skills that went outside the spiritual vision. This was supposed to be a prearranged demonstration but Ohba changed his attacks. Ueshiba was called upon to handle some very realistic attacks. In fact, Shigenobu Okumura stated: "At that time I was a student and I saw this demonstration. The demonstration was as serious as any I have ever seen. I could tell that it was not a prearranged demonstration at all." (11) Ueshiba was fumingly angry that Ohba had changed his attacks and he stayed that way until appeased by the words of Hideo Sonobe, who gave high praise. It would appear that Ueshiba's chosen demonstration of how he viewed his art of aikido was ruined by Ohba's very strong and unrehearsed attacks. Ueshiba had a prearranged vision of his aikido that included an emphasis on set attacks with which he allowed the kami to manifest the technique. The focus was not on techniques.

Shioda also said that Ueshiba told him, "In a real fight, Aikido is 70 percent atemi and 30 percent throwing." (12) The specific factor here is "real fight". We can guess that in a real encounter which isn't preset, Ueshiba relied upon his Daito ryu training, which included atemi and aiki. Techniques were not the focus. We can see that Ueshiba definitely had the skills, but chose to only show or use certain aspects, or certain subsets, in his vision of aikido. Consider that when a student was picked as an uke by Ueshiba, if that student didn't attack in a very specific way that Ueshiba wanted, then that student didn't get picked as uke again. Ueshiba was very specific in demonstrating his vision of aikido. He viewed what he did as a spiritual ideology using his students as training partners rather than focusing on actually teaching his students the secret of aiki.

Speaking of aiki, if we look to Yukiyoshi Sagawa, we find that he states aiki is a body training method and it isn't about techniques. In fact, Sagawa, Kodo, Okamoto, and Ueshiba all said their art was formless. Not some set curriculum of techniques, but formless. Then we find that Tokimune Takeda, Takuma Hisa, Kodo, Sagawa, and Ueshiba all had solo training exercises that did not get shown. Where is their focus on techniques? They did not have it.

The focus on techniques is in Modern Aikido. Now that the world has practiced Modern Aikido and its techniques since, let's say, 1960, where have people progressed? Where are the peer level people of Gozo Shioda or Rinjiro Shirata? How about those who have made it to replicate Ueshiba's abilities? Even some of the direct students have said that they haven't reached Ueshiba's level. What does that say for their students?

What has Modern Aikido been doing for 50 years? Techniques. Why is it that Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Koichi Tohei stated that techniques can be learned in a short amount of time? Doesn't 50 years of focused study on techniques with no worldwide appearance of anyone like Shioda, Shirata, or Ueshiba state something very definitive? Doesn’t that state that there are two unique visions of aikido? Morihei Ueshiba’s and Modern Aikido’s.

(1) Aiki News Issue 045
(2) Aiki News Issue 018
(3) Aiki News Issue 062
(4) Aiki News Issue 063
(5) Aiki News Issue 065
(6) Aikido Shugyo by Gozo Shioda
(7) Aikido Journal 103
(8) Aiki News Issue 056
(9) From Westbrook and Ratti's Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere.
(10) Black Belt 1965 Vol 3 No 11.
(11) Aiki News Issue 086
(12) Aikido Shugyo by Gozo Shioda





Conclusion

Two very different legacies to aikido. Kisshomaru created a worldwide vision of aikido that was accepted by millions. The world adopted the peaceful vision and the created curriculum. Some took the spiritual message as the most important part over martial viability, some took the martial viability over the spiritual, and others blended the two.

Someone who wanted a peaceful, spiritual training environment could find it. Someone who wanted a more martial environment could find it. Make no mistake, even with all the hoopla about aiki bunny hopping, there are people who have made Modern Aikido very martially viable. Ellis Amdur has an eloquent blog regarding just one example. (1)

The world embraced Modern Aikido, gave it life, gave it purpose, and created a legacy. The only unfortunate thing to it all is that the world mistakenly traced that legacy back to Morihei Ueshiba.

Morihei Ueshiba’s legacy is based upon aiki. This was the aiki that was passed down to him from Sokaku Takeda. His words were actual training explanations for developing the way of that specific aiki. And beyond those words that most couldn’t understand, he also explained aiki in very simple, direct terms … to a select few. A very specific training paradigm to change the body. Morihei Ueshiba took that aiki training, changed his body, studied Daito ryu, dabbled in other martial arts, and infused his Omoto kyo with it. A very different legacy than Modern Aikido. Ueshiba’s aikido was martially valid and stood out as unique from koryu jujutsu, judo, and other martial systems. Ueshiba’s aikido also created a visionary spiritual idealogy based entirely upon aiki but couched in Omoto kyo terms.

The world is big enough for both legacies. Different visions for different people. Modern Aikido must take a step back and start acknowledging their actual Founders - People like Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Koichi Tohei, Morihiro Saito and others. Give them the credit that is rightly due by hanging their picture on the shomen. Morihei Ueshiba should be reserved for those seeking the legacy of aiki that was passed down from Sokaku Takeda.


(1) http://kogenbudo.org/the-use-of-weapons ... -training/
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Re: Aikido

Postby shawnsegler on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:50 pm

Wasn't Tomiki Aikido competitive?

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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:58 pm

WVMark wrote:The Ueshiba Legacy

Speaking of aiki, if we look to Yukiyoshi Sagawa, we find that he states aiki is a body training method and it isn't about techniques. In fact, Sagawa, Kodo, Okamoto, and Ueshiba all said their art was formless. Not some set curriculum of techniques, but formless. Then we find that Tokimune Takeda, Takuma Hisa, Kodo, Sagawa, and Ueshiba all had solo training exercises that did not get shown. Where is their focus on techniques? They did not have it.


This is a great topic. And the post from this quote is fascinating. Is it possible for WVMark to cite his quote. It would be greatly appreciated and allow me to expand upon my knowledge and understanding. Thank you.
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