Aikido

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:09 am

Bodywork wrote:Hey, you are the one who keeps bringing up aiki as if you understand it. And aikido as if you can do it well.
You are the one who brought up aikido as:
*devestatingly effective
Or
*they address existential absurdity.
1. That's not hard to understand.
2. Your claims are not hard to understand.
But there are no ends "to a spectrum" you either do a martial art or you don't.
*You do a health movement
*Or you do Martial art (or sport)
*Or you do both
But you then should never claim your woo woo, airy fairy, descriptions of what you know, has any practical credibility AS A MARTIAL ART.
Martial arts are a tough field for discussion, Rich. Theory must lead to practical method and ability or you will be called on it.
For many people their theories end up as just pure fantasy, utter bullshit, false, not real.
We need to all change that. We need to call each other on the bullshit. Enough already.
If ya want to just do woo woo stuff, that's fine. But don't claim its devastating martial skill.

Thee, one and only thing to make aikido truly powerful is IP/aiki. Without that its semi cooperative, low percentage jujutsu - not that there's anything wrong with that- is just simply wrong to claim that, THAT, is in any way "devastatingly effective."

Be who you are with some sense of balance: humility, confidence born of testing yourself, and respect for those who truly have been tested and have the suffered damage to know what they know and know what they can and cannot do. That includes all manner of arts and sports.
Everything else hurts the reputation of the arts in general.
It is the number one reason internal power or soft arts, get a well deserved bad rap. People who are full of shit, and have never been tested, keep talking like they have.



all I know is that my study and practice of aikido done me good when attacked twice, unprovoked, and does me good when facing the absurdity existence..

I myself was surprised by the training kicking in, like auto pilot, I could only reflect upon it..

would concepts of aiki made me any safer than the maximum safety experienced.

Whats woo - woo about existentialism and the absurdity life..

yours

Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Aikido

Postby lazyboxer on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:35 am

emptycloud wrote:all I know is that my study and practice
of aikido done me good when attacked
twice, unprovoked, and does me good
when facing the absurdity existence.. I myself was surprised by the training
kicking in, like auto pilot, I could only
reflect upon it.. would concepts of aiki made me any
safer than the maximum safety
experienced. Whats woo - woo about existentialism
and the absurdity life.. yours Rich


Say what?
Living well is the best revenge.
User avatar
lazyboxer
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1035
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:22 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby Greg J on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:09 pm

When I first started reading this thread, I thought I knew what Aikido was. Now, I realize I have no idea what Aikido really is, lol!

In my simple mind, I thought that the martial art taught by O'Sensei was called Aikido. Different students of his learned different things based on when they trained with him. Also, every student had their own take on what was being taught. Over time, this manifested in the form of different schools or styles - some "softer," some "harder," some emphasizing technique, some emphasizing Ki - developing. But to me it was all Aikido.

A person might not like a certain style of Aikido, but unless it's a hybrid style like Real Aikido that truly can't be called Aikido (in the same way that 8 Step Praying Mantis can't be called Bagua - hey, I've been reading that thread too! :) ) then how can we say it's not Aikido? It's just not a style of Aikido that appeals to you. That's one of the things I love about martial arts - the fact that whether you are 8 or 80, there is bound to be an art that you can train and that can help you develop mentally, physically and (dare I say it?) spiritually. The same holds true of Aikido.

Best,
Greg
Greg J
Anjing
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:58 am

The great Jack Slack just wrote a very good article about Aikido.

http://m.fightland.vice.com/blog/wushu- ... rom-aikido

Of course, he doesn't discuss (know about?) the internal elements of Aikido - the Aiki - but then again since there is no actual evidence it works outside of a seminar environment beyond he said/she said I don't blame him.

It's an interesting article anyway.
"When I argue with reality I lose, but only 100% of the time". Blogs: Tai Chi Notebook http://www.taichinotebook.wordpress.com BJJ Notebook: http://Bjjnotebook.com
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10752
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:56 am

Last edited by emptycloud on Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:12 am

its Corky, his language is his own, but he makes some valid points on intention and body...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EvYtxE2BYk

yours

Rich
emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:18 am

emptycloud wrote:its Corky, his language is his own, but he makes some valid points on intention and body...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EvYtxE2BYk

yours

Rich

Actually... No. He does not. I suspect that *you* think they are valid because of your own practice.
Relevancy and validity to flowers and sunshine and aikibunnies is not the same as relevancy and validity to martial attributes. Corky is confusing things he clearly doesn't understand as they related to relevancy and validity in what the founder was talking about.
You can continue to make shit up and try to con yourself and others that this has validity to what the creater of your own art was talking about, but in the end you're only kidding yourself.
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:33 am

Bodywork wrote:
emptycloud wrote:its Corky, his language is his own, but he makes some valid points on intention and body...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EvYtxE2BYk

yours

Rich

Actually... No. He does not. I suspect that *you* think they are valid because of your own practice.
Relevancy and validity to flowers and sunshine and aikibunnies is not the same as relevancy and validity to martial attributes. Corky is confusing things he clearly doesn't understand as they related to relevancy and validity in what the founder was talking about.
You can continue to make shit up and try to con yourself and others that this has validity to what the creater of your own art was talking about, but in the end you're only kidding yourself.


You are probably right, but I'm happy, wrong but happy.. as mentioned before my training saved my ass on the street and I enjoy a wide open approach to training on the matts....what's not to like..?

Yours

Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:28 am

Normally I would say, that's just fine. We all do whatever we want. There is no martial police.
Airy/fairy aikido and tai-chee has been around for decades But there is a line where certain practices can and should be addressed when they claim martial or combative rationale and/or claim to be consistent within a given art form. In other words when something claims to be that which it isn't, it is healthy to challenge it.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:14 am

emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Aikido

Postby Greg J on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:20 am

GrahamB wrote:The great Jack Slack just wrote a very good article about Aikido.

http://m.fightland.vice.com/blog/wushu- ... rom-aikido



Thanks for the article, Graham. I really like Jack Slack's analyses and writings, this one was no different. The comments were interesting to read as well (in particular Nick Reu's two part observation). A couple of Slack's closing remarks struck me as being particularly relevant to the discussion/ debate at hand: "that every martial art at its root is a fighting method. They get torn off course along the way, when people stop sparring, or decide to place some kind of spiritual or supernatural meaning on physical movements..."

I also really appreciated the videos of Sensei Bruno Orozco that Rich shared. His movements seemed very powerful, efficient, and effective. I liked the second video, where he demonstrated a more combative application of Aikido (I believe he calls this "Kobun"...and his logo seems to be...an Aikibunny, lol!).

But I have to say that the video of Corky made me cringe. His language and methodology did not resonate with me at all. Full disclosure: I didn't watch the entire video. His statement at the beginning that the attack is a request for love or divine attention really put me off. Also, he also seemed to use the word intention to describe different things (purpose, momentum, etc.) Anyway, I don't think I would come back for a second lesson if this was the Aikido I saw walking into a dojo. Sense Orozco, on the other hand... :)

Dmitri wrote:Yeah, you, so-called "bodywork" -- do you, like, have a name or something? Some guy who joined a month ago wants to know dammit!!


Doesn't matter if someone has been here one month, or one decade. If they have a legit question they should feel free to ask. Mocking them brings everyone down.

Best,
Greg
Greg J
Anjing
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:49 pm

And as I noted
If people like Rich and Corky and others want to do their arts as airy fairy fun. And they know its just airy, fairy, fun... then God bless em.
Its those who never challenged themselves
Those in the soft arts, whom their art never cost them
Who then try to equate themselves with those of us who suffered to make sure what we know is effective, who deserve to be challenged.

Many in the soft arts are ruinning the reputation of once powerful arts with their airy, fairy doings. It is those who mistakenly believe they actually DO know what we know that I challenge to defend their rhetoric.
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:04 pm

Yup
And that is because all.... of our understanding is in our own hands, not our styles, not our teachers, not what we know, but what we can do.
Its a very challenging way to approach a dialogue;
I don't care where you come from. What can you do?
One if my teachers said it best regarding budo
Many people talk (big)
You, shugyo
Years go by
People still talking
Then you get up to demonstrate
Then everyone knows the truth

It's a beautiful testament to training hard, sweating out your knowledge and putting in the hundred thousand hour mark till you no longer suck and actually have something worth the having.
I'm one of the few people I have ever met who closed two successful dojo's because it interfered with my own training.
There are a few right here....
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Aikido

Postby Marko on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:29 pm

Bodywork wrote:Yup
And that is because all.... of our understanding is in our own hands, not our styles, not our teachers, not what we know, but what we can do.
Its a very challenging way to approach a dialogue;
I don't care where you come from. What can you do?
One if my teachers said it best regarding budo
Many people talk (big)
You, shugyo
Years go by
People still talking
Then you get up to demonstrate
Then everyone knows the truth

It's a beautiful testament to training hard, sweating out your knowledge and putting in the hundred thousand hour mark till you no longer suck and actually have something worth the having.
I'm one of the few people I have ever met who closed two successful dojo's because it interfered with my own training.
There are a few right here....


I think it's very true, and that it's a very bitter pill to swallow, to accept that everything is in your hands, and that there are no fall back excuses. It was so for me, in any case, especially after years of training. It's very hard also, because when you're starting out, you don't know shit about what's good and what's not. It's very easy to spend years training things that are only so-so at best, completely wrong at worst. It's very rare to strike gold and find the good stuff from the get go.

That's why I think Ellis Amdur has hit the nail with his comment about what era he would like to live and train in the most - there has never been as much good, valid info floating around than today :)
Last edited by Marko on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Marko
Anjing
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby Finny on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:39 am

Not exactly true G

There is extensive evidence around Takeda Sokaku teaching guy(s) A 'Aiki' and guys(s) B 'jujutsu'

Examples of guys A include Sagawa, Ueshiba and Horikawa Kodo - guys Takeda said were smaller and therefore needed Aiki

Whereas Hisa Takuma was a former sumo champ, a big guy, Takeda basically told him he didn't need it, so would be taught jujutsu..

The difficulty that arises is quantifying exactly what he considered 'Aiki' to be - much like another art discussed recently here in video links, each successor claimed to have got 'teh realz', and that the others didn't

By way of an example, Horikawa famously went to Sagawa after Takeda died to get instruction in the jujutsu, as he said he'd only learned 'aiki'.. and Sagawa then lorded it over him by all accounts, despite Horikawa being the ONLY surviving student of Takeda with menkyo kaiden (license of complete transmission)

Which raises other questions.. if Horikawa was the only one to get menkyo kaiden, why did he need to go to another student to get the jujutsu waza..

But in any event, it is clear that Takeda (and Ueshiba) considered 'aiki' a separate entity in it's own right, and that the (likely) best sources of authority on it would be the Kodokai (Horikawa's org) or Sagawa folks.. the Sagawa dojo is known for being closed to foreigners, and as others have noted several times, Takeda was well known for saying 'don't teach the real aiki'
User avatar
Finny
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:16 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest