Aikido

[Ah Louis]

Stanley A. Pranin is a fine journalist and Aikido historian. Mr. Pranin has done allot for Aikido.

[Greg J]

Very interesting! Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Best,
Greg

[WVMark]

I was interested in these comments so I took them to one person studies Daito ryu and knowledgable about Aikido. I found what he said very interesting.

I will quote him. FWIW this is my opinion and understanding. The whole discussion is an old one coming from complaints made by some M. Ueshiba's uchidesi [close students of Aikido] against the top Daito ryu master. The complaints are founded in the misunderstanding between generations. The master of Daito ryu represented the ways and times of the old samurai ways not liked by the younger generations. I suggest the book Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu: conversations with Daito-ryu masters by Stanley A. Pranin. A book, he said really shows the differences in the generational attitudes, criticism and conflict many ushidesi students had with S. Takeda. In my opinion the students had no reason to exaggerate what they experienced, they honestly disliked S. Takeda because of his feudal behavior and attitude they where not accustom.

Stanley A. Pranin is a fine journalist and Aikido historian. Mr. Pranin has done allot for Aikido He is the only Aikido journalist to do such in-depth research for westerner Aikido students. But, he faced many cultural barriers and challenges in his research efforts. The issue with Daito ryu is many authentic sources and organizations are highly guarded with most of their information. Not many sources are not willing to share information about S.Takeda. One good example is Y. Sagawa sensei. The Japanese don't hold the same we do concerning and sharing information when it is something they value. This is clear with the tenet and protocol of secrecy of the Daito aiki and its instruction within the Daito ryu. I would like to use Y. Sagawa as an example, again.

You also have to consider marital arts politics interfering with getting the facts and truth. Back in the late 1960s through the early 1990s most Aikido people knew little of Daito ryu. Many considered it to be brutal to say the least, base on information from books and opinions from many uchidesi of M. Ueshiba sensei. Students who didn't like S. Takeda because of who he was and what he represented. He was not a modern man, or a very friendly person. He was old school samurai in a modern Japan. Many of his old school habits didn't sit well with the younger uchidesi who found the old ways unfavorable. The younger generations didn't understand the old samurai ways. After Takeda lived in the past, and wasn't accepting of the post Mejin restoration Japan when many of M. Ueshiba's uchidesi where born and grew up in.

Many people are not really familiar with Japanese spirituality don't realize that M. Ueshiba was a very complicated person part of social change in Japan. He like many other martial arts founders where helping to change Japan. He acceptably styled himself as a type of Japanese religious ascetic of Japanese martial arts. He too had generational issues with many of his uchidesi who didn't understand his spiritual pillar. It was very common practice in his generation and before him to speak in religious Buddhist and shinto language about teaching martial arts. many of his uchideshi didn't understand that expect for G. Shioda who mentions it in one of his books. All these habits of M. Ueshiba establishing the Aikido founder's persona he projected as a leader recognized in the community. M.Ueshiba also was in the middle of the change, he understood the old ways and had an eye on the future.

The S. Takeda sensei was very private, strict old school. He didn't write about his life or put anything to pen and paper. Not because he was not proficient in writing, he could have easily and customarily gave dictation as per old school [Japanese martial art] protocol. Here again S. Sagawa provides a good model of this with the book he dictated to his student. A more important example, is Miyamoto Musashi dictating his book. Anyway, strict privacy is of the most importance. A well know example is the conversation S. Takeda had with his son T. Takeda concerning keeping Aiki secret and privileged. Y. Sagawa is another example of following Daito ryu protocol. Privacy and secrecy creates lots of politics, misinformation and speculation that is usually very negative. My point is that everything heard about Daito ryu and Aikido has to be place in the proper context knowing the likelihood it is infected with politics, misinformation and speculation.

It really doesn't matter today why what was the riff between S. Takeda or Ueshiba. More than likely it was M. Ueshiba braking teaching protocol. But, it doesn't matter. It is just old political and cultural stuff. Most if not all the students that didn't like S. Takeda have passed away. Times have changed, Japanese has changed. Aikido people are now enjoying and have more information about Daito ryu from many sources than before. Aikido practitioners are good people, like Daito ryu people. And over the years we have shared their arts in goodwill and cooperation, and isn't that what is most important? I don't see any reason to revive any type of conflict between us and Aikido."

I retyped and edited the quote from my friend, so any errors are on me.

I really found what my friend said interesting, so I am going to share it.

- Ah Luis.

It's all well and good to have opinions. But, there's no supporting proof at all given. For instance, as I've previously posted and provided references, the pre-war and post-war students of Morihei Ueshiba didn't understand his lectures. That's pretty much a given. BUT, Shioda, Tomiki, Shirata, Mochizuki, Inoue, etc all got very good and learned aiki ... and the important part is that they learned when Ueshiba was still teaching Daito ryu.

Now, we can't go and say it was Daito ryu itself because there's been far too many comparisons between pre-war and post-war Ueshiba and he's doing pretty much the same stuff. If we look back to Sagawa's father, we find there was two components of Sokaku Takeda's art ... Daito ryu jujutsu and Daito ryu aiki. Again, references were given previously. If you read Transparent Power, Sagawa talks about aiki being a body changing method outside of techniques. Deguchi thought aiki was so important, he suggested adding to to the name of Takeda's art. Takeda agreed.

So, Morihei Ueshiba, outside of all his spiritual talks that no one understood, outside all his political leanings, taught aiki to quite a few of the pre-war students. He rarely did so post-war. All this was outside the realm of politics and speculation. The people who had hands on Shirata while he was at Tokyo hombu knew for certain that he was very different than the rest of the teachers there. Tomiki ... when pressed about Daito ryu aiki demonstration stuff, easily replicated them. Tomiki just never liked doing those kinds of demonstrations. All based on aiki. Not techniques. Aiki, the body changing method.

There is a movement in aikido to learn aiki as was passed down from Sokaku Takeda to Morihei Ueshiba. Modern Aikido lacks that aiki. Sokaku Takeda, Morihei Ueshiba, Yukiyoshi Sagawa, etc all thought aiki was THE most important part of their art.

Most of the aikido and Daito ryu people I know are great people. Most of the people I know studying Chinese arts are great people. We all get along. In fact, one of the main influences that have brought us all together, sharing the same mat space, training the same stuff, laughing at ourselves, and building bridges of friendship when we're from all walks of life ... is aiki. Morihei Ueshiba's aiki that he learned from Sokaku Takeda. Outside of politics, outside of cultural references, outside of speculation ... just like the past when Ueshiba learned from Takeda, when Shirata learned from Ueshiba, when Sagawa learned from Takeda, when Shioda learned from Ueshiba, etc.

[emptycloud]

for me studying aikido has something profoundly deep to teach us about life & death.
At some point in the near future when perhaps and probably all physical strength has sapped from the body, the deeper teachings of aikido become very useful.
These teachings which are present in many other arts & practices are of immense value existentially all along our journey towards oblivion..
That we can study and relate to profound reality through aikido in class is quite frankly a marvellous thing...

Through practice we can directly experience with intensity that nothing is fixed, that everything is fluid and transforming constantly. This constant motion and flux arises out of emptiness or nothingness and is unsettling, we are not separate from impermanence. This could arguably be called a kind of enlightenment.

Aikido as I see and practice allows us to study this emptiness from which all phenomena mysteriously arise and fall.
Through sustained practice and reflection one begins to develop or have an awareness of an unchanging attention which is composed against the constant & restless motion of the world & self, this could be called a kind of Nirvana.

Whether the founder saw this possibility of his art as remedy to the absurdity of existence is not important, that this is what it has become for a few is welcome.
That the practice of aikido yields so many side benefits apart from transcending the anguish of a meaningless world is also good

yours twirling into the void

Rich

[Doc Stier]

Good post, Rich! Interesting points. ☺

[emptycloud]

http://www.mokurendojo.com/2011/05/aiki ... ikido.html

good article

yours

Rich

[Ah Louis]

http://www.mokurendojo.com/2011/05/aiki-right-now-trumps-right-aikido.html

good article

yours

Rich

I liked that article.

[Bodywork]

aikido "right here right now" trumps aikido "done the right way."

This might be the dumest thing I've ever heard a martial artist say. It sounds like something a twenty year old internet kid would say. "I want it, now!!!"

a. It basically acknowledges the better skills of the far away teacher over the local teacher and then states its better to train poorly under a dweeb because he's local, over an expert who you only see twice a year.
That is just stupid.
You can train with the expert and then use the local school to practice....on.

b. Its harder to undo burned-in bad habits then build correct ones from the start.
I have 22 Shihan, 9 sixth, dans 61 go dans who all travel twice a year to *fix* and undo what they have been doing at their local schools.
Every....single... One regrets the lost years.

There is an old saying.
"Its better to wait ten years for the right teacher, then waste ten years with the wrong one."

[emptycloud]

nicely shot..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liccIKGRK5U

Yours

Rich

[Bodywork]

nicely shot..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liccIKGRK5U
Yours
Rich

Sure. Just as
Aikido *right now*
Trumps the right aikido
So does
Good production values
Trump actual content

[windwalker]

aikido "right here right now" trumps aikido "done the right way."

This might be the dumest thing I've ever heard a martial artist say. It sounds like something a twenty year old internet kid would say. "I want it, now!!!"

a. It basically acknowledges the better skills of the far away teacher over the local teacher and then states its better to train poorly under a dweeb because he's local, over an expert who you only see twice a year.
That is just stupid.
You can train with the expert and then use the local school to practice....on.

b. Its harder to undo burned-in bad habits then build correct ones from the start.
I have 22 Shihan, 9 sixth, dans 61 go dans who all travel twice a year to *fix* and undo what they have been doing at their local schools.
Every....single... One regrets the lost years.

There is an old saying.
"Its better to wait ten years for the right teacher, then waste ten years with the wrong one."

this may be true but if one did not persevere they would never find the "right" teacher
It may take one 10yrs to know / understand the difference.
More time to find the right one.

[Ah Louis]

nicely shot..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liccIKGRK5U

That was very good. It puts things into perspective and the proper context. I liked it. Disagreeing with the skipping stone criticisms, I see no good reason for making sport of this.

When fishing you don't take a gun to catch fish.

[Ah Louis]

Somedays are better than others.

[emptycloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMOgjHxxZRY

alternatively Ueshiba taught the aiki power to try and get folks interested in the deeper meaning of his art..

some feel they need aiki power training, some don't... some are looking for body power, some are looking for immovable inner peace.

the body gets weak, the mind keeps on going....deeper into the heart of peace..its all aikido...

facets of a jewel, twirling in emptiness..

Your

Rich

[Greg J]

for me studying aikido has something profoundly deep to teach us about life & death.
At some point in the near future when perhaps and probably all physical strength has sapped from the body, the deeper teachings of aikido become very useful.
These teachings which are present in many other arts & practices are of immense value existentially all along our journey towards oblivion..
That we can study and relate to profound reality through aikido in class is quite frankly a marvellous thing...

Through practice we can directly experience with intensity that nothing is fixed, that everything is fluid and transforming constantly. This constant motion and flux arises out of emptiness or nothingness and is unsettling, we are not separate from impermanence. This could arguably be called a kind of enlightenment.

Aikido as I see and practice allows us to study this emptiness from which all phenomena mysteriously arise and fall.
Through sustained practice and reflection one begins to develop or have an awareness of an unchanging attention which is composed against the constant & restless motion of the world & self, this could be called a kind of Nirvana.

Whether the founder saw this possibility of his art as remedy to the absurdity of existence is not important, that this is what it has become for a few is welcome.
That the practice of aikido yields so many side benefits apart from transcending the anguish of a meaningless world is also good

yours twirling into the void

Rich

Or as O'Sensei put it, "Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train."

Wonderful post, Rich. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Best,
Greg