Reeling

[GrahamB]

Interesting discussion, and probably a different perspective, about 'reeling' in internal arts that I thought a few here might enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esycuUpGzIU

[Bodywork]

Ouch!
What that was, was some fairly poor spear work lacking any relevant discussion on the title of the post, whatsoever.

It is so characteristic of the martial arts today. Substitue a truly profound and very difficult thing to do, for some cursory, low level, outer movement THAT ANYONE CAN DO WITH EASE... And..bingo...
Now we all understand.

[willie]

Where's the reeling?

[Bodywork]

They are both discussing fairly mundane weapons handling ( some of which is so wrong it's comical) in various ways to launch and return...AS REELING.

Both descriptions he offers of sword cuts (wildly innacurate) and spear thrusts express a "form" or "kata view point" of weapon handling. That ain't weapons!!! That is just basic forms.
None of which will work against someone who knows what they are really doing with those tools.

That aside. There isn't a single mention of what reeling requires...IN THE BODY... Which is entirely the point. And none of which is being expressed in *his* body and transferred out to the weapon in any movement.
Which...IS... the entire point of reeling in the first place!

[Ah Louis]

Ouch is right!

This is a very real and honest, even raw look at principle and its function. Fighting isn't complex, it isn't like brain surgery as so many martial arts peddlers what people to think. No one is being lead by the nose and this is refreshing. There is no drinking of the koolaid of a Zonkey instructor as the robot students hang on to every syllable as the word of God. Where is the ego when things are questioned?

I think there is nothing wrong with looking at martial arts in ways of simple clear terms without confusing complicated language or applications. Martial arts isn't the Banach–Tarski paradox.

The guys in the video are talking straight shop, kicking out ideas to see if they would work, having an exchange of ideas. They not trying to impress each other. They are not worried if the weapon is at the right angle, or if their reeling is perfectly done, or the generation of fajin became constipated all according to master "X" -my master is better than yours. You don't get the idea they are in a dog show working to impress the judges. They are discussing martial arts in a grounded real way, as it should. That is why I liked the video.

[JoeWood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gsYtRzsGOM&feature=youtu.be

Is this guy for real or full of crap? Somewhere in between? Is he saying the right things but not doing them, etc?

[charles]

Is this guy for real or full of crap? Somewhere in between? Is he saying the right things but not doing them, etc?

No, he isn't full of crap. The video is titled Training Upper Body Spiral Energy in Zhan Zhuang. He's giving one approach to doing that.

Is the exercise he is showing a good introduction to training upper body "spiral energy"? Is "static" standing an effective way of being introduced to elements of spiral motion? Probably not. "Know thy audience." If you are consuming information, determine for whom the information was intended. What he's showing isn't, in my opinion, beginner-level introductory material in how to learn spiral motion.

[Bodywork]

Ouch is right!

This is a very real and honest, even raw look at principle and its function. Fighting isn't complex, it isn't like brain surgery as so many martial arts peddlers what people to think. No one is being lead by the nose and this is refreshing. There is no drinking of the koolaid of a Zonkey instructor as the robot students hang on to every syllable as the word of God. Where is the ego when things are questioned?

I think there is nothing wrong with looking at martial arts in ways of simple clear terms without confusing complicated language or applications. Martial arts isn't the Banach–Tarski paradox.

The guys in the video are talking straight shop, kicking out ideas to see if they would work, having an exchange of ideas. They not trying to impress each other. They are not worried if the weapon is at the right angle, or if their reeling is perfectly done, or the generation of fajin became constipated all according to master "X" -my master is better than yours. You don't get the idea they are in a dog show working to impress the judges. They are discussing martial arts in a grounded real way, as it should. That is why I liked the video.

It isn't important whether or not anyone liked or didn't like the video. What IS important is that it has nothing at all to do with the subject it is supposed to be showing.
The rest is subjective, largely dependent on your level of exposure and knowledge of weapons and the subject itself. To wit, you will get some who are wowed by it, and others who are completely dismissive.
The real question is...what is true?

[amor]

Is this guy for real or full of crap? Somewhere in between? Is he saying the right things but not doing them, etc?

No, he isn't full of crap. The video is titled Training Upper Body Spiral Energy in Zhan Zhuang. He's giving one approach to doing that.

Is the exercise he is showing a good introduction to training upper body "spiral energy"? Is "static" standing an effective way of being introduced to elements of spiral motion? Probably not. "Know thy audience." If you are consuming information, determine for whom the information was intended. What he's showing isn't, in my opinion, beginner-level introductory material in how to learn spiral motion.

Kind of agree with Charles, Marc Cohen definitely has skills from his writings/videos which show this. But I would agree that this posture and what he is saying is definitely not beginner material, its almost the very end of a long and arduous task of rewiring the body, and there are many stages to go through before you get to what he is showing imo. probably 1 in a million can go straight to what he is showing.

[jaime_g]

I dont know much about reeling, but his spear fencing is really sloppy

[willie]

[GrahamB]

Ouch is right!

This is a very real and honest, even raw look at principle and its function. Fighting isn't complex, it isn't like brain surgery as so many martial arts peddlers what people to think. No one is being lead by the nose and this is refreshing. There is no drinking of the koolaid of a Zonkey instructor as the robot students hang on to every syllable as the word of God. Where is the ego when things are questioned?

I think there is nothing wrong with looking at martial arts in ways of simple clear terms without confusing complicated language or applications. Martial arts isn't the Banach–Tarski paradox.

The guys in the video are talking straight shop, kicking out ideas to see if they would work, having an exchange of ideas. They not trying to impress each other. They are not worried if the weapon is at the right angle, or if their reeling is perfectly done, or the generation of fajin became constipated all according to master "X" -my master is better than yours. You don't get the idea they are in a dog show working to impress the judges. They are discussing martial arts in a grounded real way, as it should. That is why I liked the video.

It isn't important whether or not anyone liked or didn't like the video. What IS important is that it has nothing at all to do with the subject it is supposed to be showing.
The rest is subjective, largely dependent on your level of exposure and knowledge of weapons and the subject itself. To wit, you will get some who are wowed by it, and others who are completely dismissive.
The real question is...what is true?

Here's the thing: the reeling they're talking about in the video is not your 'silk reeling'. Nobody is treading on your turf here - you can still be the king of 'internal' - it's ok.

They're talking about the concept of reeling as it appears in the thesis of Yue Fei in relation to Chinese spear fighting. No Nagitas here.

You can go your own way - I don't think these guys care. Sorry.

[D_Glenn]

I was hoping the video was about scottish folk dancing.

Spears? I don't care about no stinking spears!

.

[Bodywork]

Here's the thing: the reeling they're talking about in the video is not your 'silk reeling'. Nobody is treading on your turf here - you can still be the king of 'internal' - it's ok.

They're talking about the concept of reeling as it appears in the thesis of Yue Fei in relation to Chinese spear fighting. No Nagitas here.

You can go your own way - I don't think these guys care. Sorry.

That type of dialogue is really not warranted or productive, Graham.
I've never presented myself as any big shot on internals.
I'll also feel very confident that the level of spear work presented would not be lauded by any teacher of that particular style you mentioned or any other.
If you want to claim its a good newbie discussion, I can't even support that much. As weapon work goes, its pretty bad.
Any discussion of internals I've left out, accept to say this isn't about that either.

[GrahamB]

Physician, heal yourself.

For anybody else who is interested in what the guys are doing in the clip I believe this is part 3 and there are two earlier clips. I'll dig them out.

Warning: there may be a lack of solo spear waving drills, adoring students and wrist grabs. There may be some application work instead. Proceed at your own risk....