Master He tieing up the opponent with spiralling body

[GrahamB]

I stumbled upon an article yesterday about how important that curve is for health. It's from a female perspective but has some interesting counterpoints to the usual 'round the back' arguments:

http://www.katysays.com/you-still-dont-know-squat/

[Bao]

Thanks Graham, interesting chic and nice tips on litterature.
"You are how you move"
"Form for life"
... Sounds very IMA-ish, IMHO...

Btw, as I understand HJH want through some tough old school training when he was young. I wouldn't be so quick to judge how he hurt himself or why. He used to post here for quite some time, in both the old EF and here as late as 2011. It would be nice to hear his own input on this matter.

[GrahamB]

Another interesting article and picture:



https://medium.com/@zzuuu/the-forgotten ... d8ef619e4e

[Dmitri]

The furniture we use sitting all day is optimised for comfort and convenience, but usually not ergonomically adapted for pelvic floor health.

No shit. Pisses me off to no end! Cars too, and many of us spend a lot of time in those. I've had a back support thing (whole back, not just lumbar area) in my car seat for years for these very reasons.

[GrahamB]

Does that help you keep the curve of the spine D?

[Tiga Pukul]

It looks sophisticated, however i don't understand what the practical value of this maybe. If he shows some applications in this video i don't think they are very realistic, but perhaps he just want to give people some ideas about the coiling.

The coiling seems like a very complicated move (or actually a combination of several movements) on a very simple single attack (single move). But again, i might see this video in a wrong way.

[Wanderingdragon]

Years ago when I hurt my back, one of the many drs I saw, seeking relief from the pain, an osteopath, a female weight lifter before female body holders were trending, examined the idea of " spreading the tail feathers" when doing deep squats. It is the same concept explained in Graham's article, it is natural and beneficial for deep leg work, yet in bending forward and pushing forward it is not a strong or natural posture, for those such movements it is necessary to keep the spine straight, not to tuck but to maitain linear continuity. As well, it has been learned deep squats are not an ideal execise for the back.

[windwalker]

edited

[bailewen]

Well...the combination of unsanitary Chinese food plus the squatting toilet seems to do the trick.

The toilet alone would help but the lack of sanitation means you spend more time there.

[Dmitri]

Does that help you keep the curve of the spine D?

A little, but mostly more like a reminder than the fix -- I have made a concerted conscious effort for the past several years to keep the spine properly aligned. Now I don't have to think about it for the most part; my body "notices" it's in the wrong place and self-corrects. Sort of like after some years of TJQ practice your body just starts to move in a certain way, and what was "normal" before begins to seem weird/weak/disconnected...

The more dramatic back improvements started after I stopped tai chi and started (again) running every morning. The reason I say that is that I used to "tweak" my back in the past when rolling in JJ classes a lot. Hasn't happened in about a year-and-a-half now, and the timing seems to coincide. I don't think tai chi was to blame -- I think the culprit was my general lack of exercise ("teaching tai chi" simply doesn't count as "exercise" really) and complete absence of back-strengthening efforts over the course of many years. A ton of awareness in that area, but no actual fixing of things.

Running seems to have this really awesome side effect (completely unexpected to me actually) of getting your back to a better place.

Sorry don't mean to derail.

[Bao]

The more dramatic back improvements started after I stopped tai chi and started (again) running every morning. ...
...I don't think tai chi was to blame -- I think the culprit was my general lack of exercise ("teaching tai chi" simply doesn't count as "exercise" really) and complete absence of back-strengthening efforts over the course of many years. A ton of awareness in that area, but no actual fixing of things.]

Maybe a combination? I.e. Tai chi could be partly blamed? Before I got too busy keeping up my own group, I combined teaching tai chi and bagua circle walking with a few basic changes. I did this because The first bagua (Cheng variation) I learned had the curved spine. Not as pronounced curved as Mr HJH, but a natural curve that stretches and lengthen the whole spine, from bottom to the neck. The default posture in tai chi is the opposite, it makes the spine straighter, but compresses it, making it shorter. IMHO, it's not a good thing to do this posture the default posture in daily life. IME, a lot of knee problems and neck stiffness amongst tai chi practitioners comes from making the practice posture a "default" posture in daily life. IMO, the body needs movability and playability. No fixed posture can be good. I don't think this is a question of physical exercise vs no exercising. It's more about our relationship to our own body and to the objects around us in the world we live in.

Running seems to have this really awesome side effect (completely unexpected to me actually) of getting your back to a better place.

To derail the thread further with OT: I've watched a whole lot of youtube vids about running, particularly long distance running. It's like reading the tai chi manuals again. The theory is almost exactly the same.

[wayne hansen]

Have you guys talked to any old runners
Most I know are riddled with pain
as for tai chi shortening the spine I don't know how you do your tai chi
The whole idea of tai chi is to lengthen and open the spine
As is pushing hands
Ba Kua being a circular vertical art works best with an open straight spine
This is a lesson taught by the tien kan

[Dmitri]

Have you guys talked to any old runners
Most I know are riddled with pain

Really depends on how you run... Plus, there are lots of other variables at play there, from shoes to genetics

The whole idea of tai chi is to lengthen and open the spine

Yep

[Bao]

as for tai chi shortening the spine I don't know how you do your tai chi
The whole idea of tai chi is to lengthen and open the spine

If you relax the body, the body should naturally make the spine longer. But if you don't understand to really relax the body and straighten by tucking in the tailbone, the effect will become that you tighten up the body instead, shortening it by compressing it. IME, this happens to the most people who don't know how to relax properly. Relaxing deep and properly is not something that comes naturally for everyone. It often needs to be practiced a whole lot to be understood.

[D_Glenn]

as for tai chi shortening the spine I don't know how you do your tai chi
The whole idea of tai chi is to lengthen and open the spine

If you relax the body, the body should naturally make the spine longer. But if you don't understand to really relax the body and straighten by tucking in the tailbone, the effect will become that you tighten up the body instead, shortening it by compressing it. IME, this happens to the most people who don't know how to relax properly. Relaxing deep and properly is not something that comes naturally for everyone. It often needs to be practiced a whole lot to be understood.

Holding the spine in a certain shape is for Zhan Zhuang (Standing Meditation), tucking the tailbone promotes Jing and Qi, holding the tailbone untucked promotes Qi and Shen.

Doing the form the spine should be constantly transitioning and changing shapes depending upon the movement.

正 Zheng often just translated as Straight or Upright, is the worst mistranslation and subsequent whole-body mistake that has been incorporated into TJQ.

正 Zheng means- exactly / just (at that time) / right (in that place), like an arrow hitting the bullseye, the shape of the spine should be just right for the movement of the form that you are doing.

NO wonder you jacked up your spine, that's just plain stupid to try and hold it in the same shape while going through the whole form.

.