Controlling Distance, Timing – Empty hand & Fencing

[marvin8]

Here are some concepts on distance & timing with empty hand & weapon. Some of the weapon concepts can transfer over to empty hand.

Justin Phillips, LAc, MSTCM, CMQ
Clinical Director
Justin Phillips first became interested in the Chinese approach to the body and wellness at the age of ten when he started studying tai chi and meditation with his father.

In answer to a question about bridging distance in empty handed combat. Justin talks about a few methods you can use to cover the gap when sparring in traditional combat!
Empty Hand Distance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyblBavmqVs

How to Fight with Chinese Broadsword 18- Controlling Distance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L_Ve0YBqPo


Charles Selberg
He was a student of Eric Funke, Jack Nottingham, Hans Halberstadt, and George Pillar.

Experienced in all levels of private and public education as a teacher of art as well as fencing, he has been training recreational and competitive fencers for over thirty years, and was himself a member of the three-man U.S. foil team which won the first (and only) gold medal for the U.S. in the World Masters' Foil Championships, in 1970.

Importance of distance and timing above other things such as choice of attack.
Fencing Strategy and Tactics: Breaking Tempo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pfXHX_0ib4

Controlling tempo; stealing time; and broken tempo; and finally if time permits, how does countertime related to complex and second intention attacks.
Fencing Strategy and Tactics: Counter-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKGL2rpgxQ

Fencing Strategy and Tactics: The Psychology of Feints:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Rjm3bqEXA

[LaoDan]

Marvin,

Are you associated with Justin Phillips? Although I appreciate his attempts to practice free sparring with Taijiquan principles, I have questions about his approach. While the videos that you posted relating to distance, timing, and using the empty hand (as well as some other principles and specific techniques), other videos in his playlist seem to be more based on sport fencing and seem to be inconsistent with how I understand Taiji dao.

I have not posted until now since I feel that there is too little information out about free sparring using Taiji dao and I really do appreciate the effort that Justin put into his playlist. Since there have not been any replies to your post yet, and if you are associated with him, then perhaps we could discuss the differences I have with the approach that he presents.

Dan

[marvin8]

Marvin,

Are you associated with Justin Phillips? Although I appreciate his attempts to practice free sparring with Taijiquan principles, I have questions about his approach. While the videos that you posted relating to distance, timing, and using the empty hand (as well as some other principles and specific techniques), other videos in his playlist seem to be more based on sport fencing and seem to be inconsistent with how I understand Taiji dao.

No, I'm not associated with Justin. I may not agree with everything he says either.

His video reminded me of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58WvLbXwY-M

[Greg J]

Great idea for a thread - I hope it gets some traction.

It seemed that most of the videos were just as much about entering as they were about controlling distance. In a sense, "controlling distance" is a misnomer as you can't control what your opponent does. You can, however, decide how and at what point you will engage. I think that different arts will have different preferences and ways of doing this.

In DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts), the distance where you are outside of the range of your & your opponent's weapons is called "snake range." This is the range where most fights (note - not ambushes) start. It is considered a psychological and physical range - you are getting a sense of your opponent's movements and intentions, and masking your own intention with movements of your own. Your opponent is also feeling you out. Bridging the gap from snake range into weapons range (the point where your weapon can make contact with his weapon or hand) or closer (kicking, punching, standing clinch, and grappling range) is of primary importance. In DBMA we often use attacking blocks and feints as ways of bridging that gap. Rhythm is also very important.

Bruce Lee's concepts of the "five ways of attack" (Simple Direct Attack; Attack By Combination; Progressive Indirect Attack; (Hand) Immobilization Attack and Attack By Drawing) can be helpful in thinking about how (within the context of your art) you would close the gap and engage your opponent.

This is a great video analyzing the Five ways of attack within a boxing context.



Interested in hearing what others think about controlling distance, and entering in a fight.

Best,
Greg

[marvin8]

Interested in hearing what others think about controlling distance, and entering in a fight.

Here's some videos covering this topic (posted here before), while I don't agree with everything.

Uploaded on 26 Jan 2012
Bridging must keep you protected while making the opponent vulnerable. This video demonstrates 3 key components that help keep you protected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUA-zfyKuM

Uploaded on 26 Jan 2012
3 Components
1. Manipulate Distance
2. Manipulate Angle/Position
3. Set the striking lane to a clear and unobstructed path to the target:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHkV2JyUE4#t=228

[marvin8]

. . . Attack By Drawing can be helpful in thinking about how (within the context of your art) you would close the gap and engage your opponent. . . .

Here's what I see as an “attack by drawing.“

Using his right lead hand, McGregor closes off the line of attack, controlling Jose Aldo’s left hand. This helps in drawing Aldo to throw his straight right hand. McGregor creates a rhythm in his footwork and leaves his left hand down and out from his body. This entices Aldo to attack, with a straight right hand. (Aldo was faking the right hand and trying to hit McGregor with a left hook.) By moving a half step back & using timing, McGregor counters with a straight left hand, KOing Aldo. He exits at an angle, being defensively responsible.

Conclusion – Conor McGregor defeats Aldo by using:
1. Distance
2. Control
3. Broken rhythm
4. Timing
5. Angles

There are many fighters that can throw a good technical straight left hand with power & speed. However, an elite fighter (internal and/or external) has more skills than only technique, speed, & power:


In the video below on the left side, notice how McGregor stutter steps in his shadow boxing. Then, he goes into rhythm and throws a straight left hand. Shadow boxing and solo drills should include distance, timing, broken rhythm, angles, etc., not only technique.

Published on 15 Dec 2015
Backroom locker footage of Conor McGregor only hours before his bout with Jose Aldo practicing the straight left hand he would later go on to use and get the finish over Jose Aldo at UFC 194 put side by side with the actual finish in the fight.
Conor McGregor - UFC194 Backroom Locker Practice & Finish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNI9M73jL8

[marvin8]

The following video displays drills for fencing. I think, this form of sport fencing is limited in that they move back & forth in a straight line.

Does anyone practice or have ideas for internal fighting drills, beyond push hands? Drills that repeat certain internal principles (e.g., quick changes, transitions, open/close kua, etc.,) in quick succession, building internal reflexes, etc., for sparring or fighting.

Drills for fencing. Starting at 28:37 resembles some form of fencing.

Published on 16 Sep 2013
fencing training video

Gymnastics for Fencing – Full:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tApwgPsaa7s

[marvin8]

Found these videos thought they might add to the topic.

Published on Jan 9, 2016
Third look at longsword techniques, this time looking at closing down an opponent, grappling and halfsword:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFCkDRm8isw

Published on Dec 30, 2015
Looking at techniques of setting up attacks in longsword:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjsobjDveiE

Published on Feb 21, 2016
Looking at the semi-final bout between Carl Ryrberg and Dennis Ljungqvist at swordfish 2015, with a discussion on measure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sTb2Qtcsc4