Traditional vs Functional Martial Art — You Can Have Both

[Spncr]

Here's what I found to be different between a street fight and MMA, maybe you can add to it:

Here are a few factors & modifications that need to be considered:

1. Weapons — Weapons are not allowed in the UFC. You need to be cautious of weapons in your initial confrontation. For example, if you are a grappler, you need to be careful the opponent doesn’t have a knife with him, before moving in. It’s more cautious to keep distance, at least initially. You can also train for various weapons and scenarios.

2. Surprise attacks — There are no bells and rules against sucker punches, low blows, and other dirty tactics.

3. Length of fight — A street fight should last seconds to minutes. Otherwise, you should find a way to exit. Therefore training should consist more of sprints for short bursts, rather than long runs.

4. Terrain/Environment — Uneven terrain may affect which techniques to use.

5. Multiple opponents — Adjust technique, strategy and tactics for multiple opponents.

6. Height & weight of opponent — No weight classes. Adjust per the opponent in front of you.

7. The condition that your in at the time of the altercation -- injured, sleepy, blinded, altered-states, etc.

8. Protecting friends or family

9. Clothes -- possible restriction of movement, minimal traction, they may act is grips for your opponent, etc.

10. Legal reprecussions of techniques employed -- possible jail time, loss of social status, losing your current job or denied of future employment

11. Payback -- depending on what you do to the opponent, they may want to attack you again later, possibly with weapons or by suprise or out-numbering you, allowing them to save face may avoid this

12. Lack of protective gear and rules-- might break just about anything causing irreversable damage or death, the odds of you dying are increased

13. Urgency -- do to all of the considerations above your opponent may instinctually or intentionally act with more agression

[Spncr]

What’s your opinion on where a better place (dojo, in the street, backyard, push hands tournaments, etc.) would be to train and test your self-defense skills, outside of the ring? Rather than train like a UFC fighter, how would you train for self-defense? What training partners would you use? What strategies, etc., would you use in self-defense? It would be interesting to hear anyone’s opinion. Can you give your opinions on these questions and expand on them?

I wouldn't say that there is a best place so to speak, that would depend on the individuals level of commitment to studying this topic. That being said FWIW, working as a bouncer at a club with a lot of violence will give you some experience (for better or worse.) Although some of the altercations you have bouncing are even further removed from bring a street fight than MMA, other times however, a street fight is exactly what you get. If you choose to go this route, I recommend reading up on body language, NLP and proxemics, and not to take anything personally.

[Ah Louis]

Evolving is something I previous spoke to dealing with the dynamic of what defines a street fight. I still feel in terms of evolving, a street fight doesn't mean specifically and only to what happens in side a ring.

I agree. I gave six factors and modifications that need to be considered in a street fight, that is different from inside the ring, in my previous post, which Spncr added to. This is not a "challenge." I would like to get your opinion. What happens in the street that is different from the ring, in your opinion? How would you adjust for this?

And the term "street fight" is a misnomer. I am not paired with John's comments of a street fight in the video. We are dictated and shaped by our environment when it come to defining a "street fight" isn't something all inclusive to a self-defense situation. What about women, do they define rape as "street fight?" Does any one threatened by a gun or knife consider it a "street fight?" Is the knockout game a "street fight?" Does defending one's self from a home invasion, a car-jacking, domestic abuse, a "street fight?" What are the applicable techniques to be applied readily and effectively in these situations? Is it a shot gun approach of MMA, seen as a cure all? I hope not.

I agree. What techniques, strategies, etc. would you suggest to use in a "street fight," that are different from MMA. How do you suggest we train them?

It takes careful thought and sagacious planning where the scope and dynamic of what and how is being taught is vigilantly attended to. You don't train for one specific event or dynamic, or from a shotgun or magic bullet approach.

[marvin8]

I wouldn't say t Although some of the altercations you have bouncing are even further removed from bring a street fight than MMA, other times however, a street fight is exactly what you get. If you choose to go this route, I recommend reading up on body language, NLP and proxemics, and not to take anything personally.

Some good points. I have studied NLP, which can help reading people, de-escalating the situation, reframing, mind mapping, verbal self-defense, etc. Also, listening (sensitivity to movement) and leading (luring) someone to do what you want them to do are valuable skills to have.

The views expressed in the following videos are those of the presenters and do not necessarily represent the views, opinions, or positions of, and should not be attributed to me.

Which sport fighting skills transfer to the street, if any? . . .

Published on Jul 27, 2014
Gas Station Clerk With MMA Training Skills Surprises Thieves. Video footage of South Side convenience store clerk Mayura Dissanayake's. The men who tried to hold up his gas station didn't know about his skills.They found out pretty quickly! LOL++:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tn1I07k0Bs

Published on Feb 22, 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJUw7OXXGwg

Published on May 10, 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgb73PaTapg

Published on Feb 25, 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IQBd1vCvY4

Published on Feb 24, 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QpchlJKh4Y

[Spncr]

[marvin8]

Anyway I don't believe everything I read when it comes to the MMA writers, promoters or commentators. They are a business and have their own agendas.

Ok now we are onto ima in mma. A good topic but one that is unfortunately extremely debatable.

Tim Cartmell’s (Sun Style Taijiquan Lineage Holder and teacher of BJJ & MMA), viewpoint on MMA in contrast with Chinese IMAs.

Cartmell started in Kung Fu San Soo at age 11, and 12 years later (in 1984) moved to Taiwan where he studied the Internal Martial Arts of Xingyi, Taijiquan, and Baguazhang, including becoming an indoor student of Sun Style taijiquan lineage holder Sun Jianyun, daughter of the style’s founder (Sun Lutang). While in China, Tim was fighting in San Da tournaments, and synchronistically heard about the Gracies & Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Impressed by the Gracie tapes, when he came back to the states in ’95, he got into BJJ and went on to become Cleber Luciano’s first blackbelt. For a lot more great info, check out Tim Cartmell’s full bio interview here, http://www.shenwu.com/background.htm. In it he discusses his views on traditional Chinese martial arts, as well as his thoughts on the “internal vs. external” style dichotomy (and much more). A lot of the same information is expressed in the interview sections of the following video.

Excerpt from 10:17, on the question of “What Is MMA” in contrast with Tai Chi & other “Traditional” styles?

I think there’s a divide still [between Traditional and Mixed Martial Arts]. Traditional styles have strong points and weak points, just like sport martial arts do.

I think the people that do things like jiu jitsu, and MMA, and combat sports, are fighting. They’re fighting, they’re competing, and even though it’s within a set of rules, there’s actual resistance and contact.

A lot of the traditional martial arts don’t have it as much. There might be a lot of form training, and basics training, and maybe technique training, but not a lot of actual full resistance training like that. The problem with traditional styles is a lot of times they have the idea that it’s too deadly, for example, “Our techniques are too deadly and we can’t train live.” And that’s a huge mistake, I think. On the other side, all the primary styles that make up Mixed Martial Arts were traditional styles. Jiu Jitsu goes back to Japan. Thai boxing is traditional, it’s old.

So I think there’s really not – or there shouldn’t be – a divide between the two. Mostly it’s the training paradigm that’s different. I think that traditional martial artists, if they really are training for actual fighting ability, they need to be sparring. Even if it’s in a controlled format, they have to have contact, because the hallmark of a real fight is the other guy’s resisting as much as possible… so you need to get used to that.

Interviews start at 5:01, 10:17 & 18:05.

Published on Oct 22, 2012
Tim Cartmell - BJJ blackbelt and high level instructor of Chinese martial arts is featured in this episode of Rolled Up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de3HLG681bk&t=10m17s