Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

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Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby marvin8 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:37 am

Shifu Mark Li is the first generation lineage holder of Xingyi-Dao (心意道) Internal Kung Fu System. Xinyi-Dao was founded by Grandmaster Gulong (aka Li Tai Liang), a world renowned Chinese martial artist with over 35 years of professional teaching experiences. Grandmaster Gulong has taught at Shaolin Temple in China, Chinese Special Police Force, and the Beijing Sanshou/Kickboxing Team. Xinyi-Dao was created by Grandmaster Gulong as a result of his extensive and unique experience in both traditional and modern martial arts. Xinyi-Dao integrates the essence of Internal Martial Arts, Shaolin Kung Fu, and training elements used in Sanshou/kickboxing into a powerful and effective fighting style, with a deep focus on one's physical, internal, and mental well-being.

Uploaded on Feb 11, 2011
Xinyi-Dao five elements, Heng Quan, incorporated into sparring/boxing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnsz1vllBi4

Uploaded on Feb 11, 2011
Xinyi-Dao five elements, Pi Quan, incorporated into sparring/boxing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu_G_DJDjGI

Uploaded on Feb 11, 2011
Xinyi-Dao five elements, Beng Quan and Zuan Quan, incorporated into sparring/boxing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrrjv1CH2dI
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby Ian on Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:42 am

Oh look, CMA videos that say they're about sparring but totally aren't. What a surprise.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby marvin8 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:06 pm

Ian wrote:Oh look, CMA videos that say they're about sparring but totally aren't. What a surprise.

I agree. It’s not sparring.

However unlike most demos, Mark shows how the techniques will work, when the opponent retracts his punch rather than leave his punch in the air, for him to counter. IMO, the timing of the technique is more honest.
Last edited by marvin8 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby spekkioxlv on Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:55 am



I know Mark from practicing occasionally with him in the past while he was at George Mason University. To be fair, I included a video of him sparring, though I never sparred him myself.

When I did work with him, it did seem like there was a seperation of the style of apps like in the video above and pure sparring.

I hung out with him since he was a super nice guy to be around. IMO though, I think that the Yizong material that I practice has a much better translation to actually fighting. I'm sure he could throw down and fight if he wanted to.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby Ian on Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:50 am

I do not understand the point of training for years for this level of result. Why not just do muay thai?



I'm sure he's a nice guy, but how is any of this convincing? Do not understand.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby Strange on Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:22 am

speaking from an ima pov (as far as my limited understanding goes)
ima practitioner must not be afraid of making contact.
once in, the very first touch must be to control the centreline.
what is the meaning of control the centreline?
it means to "take" the centreline and make our opponent to be out of his centreline.
one might say this meaning is make your opponent off balance.
but i feel it is a little more that that.

for some persons new to ima
this maybe can serve as yardstick on how to "measure" sparring or maybe even practice
cheers
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby marvin8 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:51 pm

spekkioxlv wrote:When I did work with him, it did seem like there was a seperation of the style of apps like in the video above and pure sparring. . . .

IMO though, I think that the Yizong material that I practice has a much better translation to actually fighting.

Thanks for the sparring video, which I hadn’t seen. Yes, seems like Mark's drill skills did not transfer over to his sparring. Although, his sparring was fine, it was minus any higher level CMA skills.

What is your opinion on the following video?

The Manchester Yizong Bagua school has been situated in Chorlton since William "Aarvo" Tucker, senior Disciple of Luo De Xiu, returned from Taiwan and began teaching in England in 1997.

Published on Dec 2, 2014
Tuesdays Sanda sparring class at Manchester Bagua:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q54K_3sTICo

Ian wrote:I do not understand the point of training for years for this level of result. . . .

I'm sure he's a nice guy, but how is any of this convincing? Do not understand.

After seeing the sparring video, I agree and don't see anything overly impressive.

Given that this may not be their total training program, do you have suggestions on better ways to drill or train, then what they are showing? Which higher level skills do you expect to see in sparring?

Strange wrote:speaking from an ima pov (as far as my limited understanding goes)
ima practitioner must not be afraid of making contact.
once in, the very first touch must be to control the centreline.
what is the meaning of control the centreline?
it means to "take" the centreline and make our opponent to be out of his centreline.
one might say this meaning is make your opponent off balance.
but i feel it is a little more that that.

for some persons new to ima
this maybe can serve as yardstick on how to "measure" sparring or maybe even practice
cheers

Yes. The following videos reminded me of the OP videos. At first, I was impressed with David’s trapping and control drills. However after viewing his sparring and competition video, the trapping and control skills were missing. At the same time, David seems to be a good fighter.

Published on Dec 14, 2012
Jeet Kune Do - Jun Fan Gung Fu trapping techniques by David Bertrand from Jeet Academy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIUcKYLFVDE

Published on Nov 25, 2012
A mix of Sanda Sparrings and Combat techniques by David Bertrand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dtsE2Jus0Q
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby Ian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:53 am

marvin8 wrote:After seeing the sparring video, I agree and don't see anything overly impressive.

Given that this may not be their total training program, do you have suggestions on better ways to drill or train, then what they are showing?


Well, start with some techniques that are high percentage and have been verified in international competition:



Try them in conditional spars:



Spar regularly against strong partners.

Fight regularly for real (mat, ring, door, street, whatever).

Relentlessly search for and eliminate your weaknesses.

Improve effectiveness as well as efficiency.

Get your mindset right.

etc.
Last edited by Ian on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby Strange on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:21 pm

yes it is important to have the correct understanding
stupid strength fighting against stupid strength goes against the principles of chinese ma
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby spekkioxlv on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:27 pm

I didnt mean to imply that he couldn't fight or use his system. Really I was making the distinction that I found it hard to conceptually apply some of we'd done in his classes.

As for that video, see tons of the basic throws that we would drill all the time.
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby marvin8 on Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:44 pm

Ian wrote:Spar regularly against strong partners.

Fight regularly for real (mat, ring, door, street, whatever).

Relentlessly search for and eliminate your weaknesses.

Improve effectiveness as well as efficiency.

Get your mindset right.

etc.

Initially, I posted the OP video, because I felt the drills were more realistic, given the timing of the punches. Mark even told the attacker to withdraw his punch, not to leave it out. Then, he showed the timing of the technique. However after seeing his sparring video, I realize that even this type of drill is not enough.

The same with demonstrations. I prefer to see demonstrations that show movement, timing, etc., of the technique. This is more honest in showing how a technique can be applied. Mark & David were both trained in IMA and CMA. However IMO, the drills they showed were not sophisticated enough. Given this is not their only training, IMO, the drills did not include enough movement, timing, distance, etc., which showed in their sparring.

Take the top fighters in combat sports. Not all of their training is exactly alike. However, their training share certain common characteristics. One example, is to have a mitt coach simulate an opponent giving forward & backward pressure, movement, various attacks, different angles, etc. The coach will decide what he wants his fighter to practice on. IMO, fighters should drill and develop some skill in timing, distance, position, etc., before jumping into sparring. Other drills, besides mitts, can train the same fighting skills.

IMO, IMA and CMA can practice their internal body movement, techniques, etc. with similar drills to improve their sparring & fighting skills. Mitts are not necessary, but can help.

Here’s some mitt work videos:

Coach moving with mitts @ 7:23

Published on Apr 29, 2013
holguin...a block from parque Garcia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXzEE3kAYw&t=7m23s

Published on Jan 29, 2016
Conor McGregor training 2016 highlights Conor McGregor's boxing drills for UFC 196 (formerly UFC 197)fight against Rafael Dos Anjos. . . . This video shows Conor McGregor's UFC 196 boxing drills and MMA fighting techniques that will prove to be a decisive factor in the stand up game against Rafael Dos Anjos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t7DEfJHTEQ

Published on Apr 23, 2015
FightHype.com was on location in Hayward, California where undefeated super middleweight king Andre Ward was putting in work as he prepares for his upcoming June 20 return to the ring against Paul Smith. Check out how he looked as he worked the mitts with world-class trainer Virgil Hunter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd_Xx-twe5s

Published on Feb 3, 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj3DaXXmKM4
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Re: Xinyi-Dao — Mark Li

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:49 pm

No offense, but Mark is wet-behind-the-ears compared to his daddy, Master Li Tailiang. I wouldn't judge their system solely based on his performance.
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