balancing yin & yang

[Bodywork]

Finney
Your take on the work, and windwalkers meandering positions, is spot on and makes perfect sense.
Of course the videos are not the same thing!
Just so you don't think you've gone mad!
Dan

The two clips are the same, the same processes at work.

is what I wrote.

but ok, they'er not the same.

whats not the same?
whats different between using just the tip of a finger to no touch?

We have 3 levels we work with/on..skin, hair and air.

Each an extension of the other at a higher level of skill.

If one agrees the same processes are being used, the only real difference is the medium by which
they work through.

the student seems like he is in a lot of pain,,,from just being touched by the teachers finger why is that?



People I know can do similar things, to including no-touch which is just
an extension of what is shown different level...The process by which both work
IME are the same....

its been said that one is faked...there are other clips of Ueshiba, showing some of
the same things. Are all such clips now to be thought of as not real or faked?

No. They are not the same.
No. They are not three levels of anything meaningful
No. You don't know anyone anywhere on the earth who can do no touch throws on NON COMPLIANT people.
It only works with preconditioning.

Last, your response to Ian is a nonresponse. The means and ways to do these things are NOT the same.
And
You would have to know and do them all to know that.
Your thinking that, that stuff would work on a grappler?
is all that need be said.

We can discuss high level training principles and their value without the need for fantasy and delusion.

[Taste of Death]

if your training it to try and sense the attack before it arrives, cool. but don't get lost along the way.

That's all it is. It is sensitivity training for the student. It has no martial applications. It only works on those who have trained in it.

[windwalker]

No. They are not the same.
No. They are not three levels of anything meaningful

The 3 levels are something those that I work with use in our work...
for you to say they dont mean anything would mean that you would have to know something about them, which obviously you dont.

No. You don't know anyone anywhere on the earth who can do no touch throws on NON COMPLIANT people.
It only works with preconditioning.

wow your pretty good, you feel you know what I know, and who I know...well maybe on the last part we both know some one
who has sampled both of our work...He once mentioned to me that while we talk about the same things the methods used are quite different.
As to the fist part, while you may use some of the same verbiage, somehow you seem to miss the logical conclusions. As to why who knows,
who cares.

I dont.

Last, your response to Ian is a nonresponse. The means and ways to do these things are NOT the same.
And You would have to know and do them all to know that.
Your thinking that, that stuff would work on a grappler?

Do you feel you can you do any of things shown.
maybe you can



nix pix btw looks fun.

I can cause the same reactions from a taiji perspective we tend not to sit on the ground much.
ask your self the same questions you posed to me...

you are pretty good but very predictable, its always the same.
Others have noted it, some have left....

All the things you complain about others doing you do.
you talk about others work while showing none of your own
you act as if you know or understand much of what others do or practice when clearly you do not.

Which makes for a really boring, and dull conversation...
not really a conversation,,,

carry on

[Dmitri]

I can cause the same reactions from a taiji perspective

What's shown on the above photo is not a "reaction"; it's a "result". I think that might be the qualitative difference in this whole comparison discussion and possibly the source of your misunderstanding. In one case, the guy goes airborne because he is physically propelled upward and out; in the other, the guy's mind is manipulated to respond in a similar fashion. The first guy will fly almost regardless of the state of his mind. The second could choose not to, provided he's not entirely brainwashed or is suggestible beyond norm.

we both know some one who has sampled both of our work...He once mentioned to me that while we talk about the same things the methods used are quite different.

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about (not me obviously, as I haven't touched hands with you - hopefully 'yet' ). But I have practiced for a long time (and with great interest) with a Chinese guy who has done the same exact work for many years in China, I'm sure now that it is nearly identical to yours (his grand-teacher was Wei Shuren, if that's of any help). So speaking from that perspective -- "the methods used are quite different" - yes indeed, however I wouldn't say that you and Dan "talk about the same things", at all. I would instead say that there is some overlap (regarding the use of intent), but that's it; nothing more.

The two approaches are completely different, IME, on many levels, both in training and in its results.

FWIW

[windwalker]

What's shown on the above photo is not a "reaction"; it's a "result". I think that might be the qualitative difference in this whole comparison discussion and possibly the source of your misunderstanding. In one case, the guy goes airborne because he is physically propelled upward and out; in the other, the guy's mind is manipulated to respond in

a similar fashion. The first guy will fly almost regardless of the state of his mind. The second could choose not to, provided he's not entirely brainwashed or is suggestible beyond norm.

D, nice post thanks

I would really disagree. This too has been talked about with those I know...Not about to go into it, only to say that all that has been talked about and tested by those who work on the same things... with others who've never met them before the results are the same....its not the mind that it interacts with, although this is part of if....One way a person feels they are being moved and cant feel or understand why,,the other it seems according to you is they can feel it directly.

We call this fist level work that deals more with the structure and how it interacts with others..Our work starts with this but moves past it focusing on other areas that are used to connect with and move other things....that the body is connected with....Once this is moved, ya gonna go with it but may not understand why.

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about (not me obviously, as I haven't touched hands with you - hopefully 'yet' ). But I have practiced for a long time (and with great interest) with a Chinese guy who has done the same exact work for many years in China, I'm sure now that it is nearly identical to yours (his grand-teacher was Wei Shuren,

if that's of any help). So speaking from that perspective -- "the methods used are quite different" - yes indeed, however I wouldn't say that you and Dan "talk about the same things", at all. I would instead say that there is some overlap (regarding the use of intent), but that's it; nothing more.

There are levels and levels of understandings and teachers. I would tend to agree with your assessment, regarding "intent" however, I have worked with others besides the one your talking about who have worked with Dan, they also told me we talked about the same things but did things very differently. All it means is that there are some very different approaches used, leading to different results/conclusions.

The two approaches are completely different, IME, on many levels, both in training and in its results.

FWIW

cool I always got that,,,my whole point on this site has been to offer first hand accounting of some the things
that people mock I guess trying to validate their own work, who knows?

What I've noted here is that most reading something some how feel they get or know it, but when shown
it tends to get mocked.....which normally I wouldn't even care about except that
I happen to frequent this watering hole.

I guess its time

,,,,its more of a habit now then anything really productive

although I have met some good friends here
and talked with others off line...who seem to share many of my view points
they being wiser do not voice them on line..

time for me to break the habit....

later...

[amor]

What's shown on the above photo is not a "reaction"; it's a "result". I think that might be the qualitative difference in this whole comparison discussion and possibly the source of your misunderstanding. In one case, the guy goes airborne because he is physically propelled upward and out; in the other, the guy's mind is manipulated to respond in a similar fashion. The first guy will fly almost regardless of the state of his mind. The second could choose not to, provided he's not entirely brainwashed or is suggestible beyond norm.

Pretty impressive pictures of what Dan appears to be doing in those pictures especially as he is in a seated position. How does this work then, dantien driven? I can only guess that Dan is storing the push he receives and when the pusher has reached his zenith of maximum push Dan releases it via the arm points he is being touched, which is connected to his center.
Would this also work on the pusher if Dan were to say, release the stored 'push force' midway so when while the pusher is at maximum exertion. I imagine that if Dan released the 'push force' midway then it could potentially break the pushers spine, no?

The two approaches are completely different, IME, on many levels, both in training and in its results.

Care to elaborate on how the 2 methods differ from those 2 perspective

[willie]

Do you feel you can you do any of things shown.

Windy...

[Chris Li]

nix pix btw looks fun.

I can cause the same reactions from a taiji perspective we tend not to sit on the ground much.

I took those photos, and I agree with Dmitry, who characterized it as a result rather than a reaction.

Someone on Aikiweb opined that Scott's spinal reflexes were getting triggered, and this was Scott's response:

Heh.
Hee hee.
Aheh. Ha,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWOOOHAHAHA!!!
Ah ha heh ha*cough cough* ow hah....
Oh man, sorry. Ahem!. <popping the spinal reflexes> AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Yeah no that ain't it.

FWIW....

Best,

Chris

[windwalker]

[Dmitri]

how the 2 methods differ

Sorry, that would just be way too much typing, and in the end would probably end up being imprecise and incomplete anyway...


As for the other questions -- I'd direct them to Dan, for obvious reasons.
I'd only speculate regarding the last one -- won't break the spine. But could probably cause a good whiplash.

[willie]

nix pix btw looks fun.

I can cause the same reactions from a taiji perspective we tend not to sit on the ground much.

I took those photos, and I agree with Dmitry, who characterized it as a result rather than a reaction.

Someone on Aikiweb opined that Scott's spinal reflexes were getting triggered, and this was Scott's response:

Heh.
Hee hee.
Aheh. Ha,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWOOOHAHAHA!!!
Ah ha heh ha*cough cough* ow hah....
Oh man, sorry. Ahem!. <popping the spinal reflexes> AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Yeah no that ain't it.

FWIW....

Best,

Chris

pictures showed good power from a very bad position. he is tunneling Aiki under the forces. nice move...
but I noticed that the guy being throw straightened his arms out and kicked off once he knew he could not hold the force.
I would of just powered down rendering the entire technique useless.

[Chris Li]

pictures showed good power from a very bad position. he is tunneling Aiki under the forces. nice move...
but I noticed that the guy being throw straightened his arms out and kicked off once he knew he could not hold the force.
I would of just powered down rendering the entire technique useless.

I'm certainly not Scott, but I've had it done to me - but no jumping was involved on my part.

Best,

Chris

[windwalker]

I took those photos, and I agree with Dmitry, who characterized it as a result rather than a reaction.

Someone on Aikiweb opined that Scott's spinal reflexes were getting triggered, and this was Scott's response:

Heh.
Hee hee.
Aheh. Ha,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWOOOHAHAHA!!!
Ah ha heh ha*cough cough* ow hah....
Oh man, sorry. Ahem!. <popping the spinal reflexes> AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Yeah no that ain't it.

FWIW....

Best,

Chris

which means what?

FWIW

If your not even going to say something relevant why bother
otherwise you come of as another commercial


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxaxtWitbow

in this clip 4:27
the same thing said to be faked is noted.

I leave the skill of the teacher to others only noting that what was shown in the other clip said to be faked is now shown
in this clip and said not to be....So which is it ?

In truth I dont really care, only noted that what you repeated in the other clip would also tend make one question all clips of like nature.


FWIW

carry on

[willie]

pictures showed good power from a very bad position. he is tunneling Aiki under the forces. nice move...
but I noticed that the guy being throw straightened his arms out and kicked off once he knew he could not hold the force.
I would of just powered down rendering the entire technique useless.

I'm certainly not Scott, but I've had it done to me - but no jumping was involved on my part.

Best,

Chris

impressive.
still would have no effect on me. useless against taiji.

[Chris Li]

which means what?

FWIW

If your not even going to say something relevant why bother
otherwise you come of as another commercial

Well, I thought that some context from somebody who was there was relevant. I'm sorry that you don't agree.

I won't comment on Abe - I wasn't there and never had a chance to speak to him about that particular video.

Best,

Chris