Huge Roundhouse Kick

[marvin8]

Phillip Ng (Choy Lee Fut, Wing Chun, Western Boxing) and Jerry Yeung (Wing Chun, Sanda, Kickboxing) visit China to experience Xing yi Quan (Form-Intention Fist or Shape-Will Fist) and Xinyi Quan (Mind Intention Boxing) and improve their martial arts training:

Starting at @ 21:05 to 21:11, 23:56 to 27:43 and @ 40:06 to 41:47 Xingyi friendly sparring another style.

A poignant point to me was @ 22:17 I’m not like you. You have many chances to spar and practice sanshou every day. We don’t have that many chances. This is what we have to do in traditional kung fu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZu5VUOsBM8&t=22m17s

[cloudz]

who knows what your point might be and or any relevance it has and to what..

something about the names, translations and meanings
something about sparring vs, not sparring
something about style vs. style
something about internal v. external.


God only knows

[marvin8]

who knows what your point might be and or any relevance it has and to what..

something about the names, translations and meanings
something about sparring vs, not sparring
something about style vs. style
something about internal v. external.


God only knows

My point has something to do about, in the video there are practitioners that have practiced internal intention training, by definition of their styles. There were no fatalities or ambulances called.

Actually, I enjoyed the episode and was expecting more from the internal players. However, I understand they don't represent all internal players and this was friendly sparring on TV.

[cloudz]

The points made about "surviving" and "hitting hard" in this thread are pretty basic and universal. There is no person in a London pub that needs telling and no martial arts system that need telling. Thinking they are what the name of this style is really all about or should be, is poor understanding of what the experience and meaning is.
My opinion of course..

They were impressed by the power developed in that art, so that clearly wasn't a problem this film exposed. The problems are elsewhere.

Again, In my opinion of course.. That's why I find it odd that you chose to bold those parts of the name.
Why should I take your opinion as credible about that particular point ?

[marvin8]

They were impressed by the power developed in that art, so that clearly wasn't a problem this film exposed. The problems are elsewhere.

Again, In my opinion of course.. That's why I find it odd that you chose to bold those parts of the name.
Why should I take your opinion as credible about that particular point ?

I bolded "Intention" and "Will" mainly for anyone reading that may not know the meaning of Xingyi and Xinyi. Also, to explain I was continuing the discussion on intention and posting a video about the subject. I purposely did not give an opinion on the video. Because, I prefer to let the viewer come up with their own experience and opinions. That's why I don't understand your question. What particular point do you think I was trying to make?

Then, you posted:

who knows what your point might be and or any relevance it has and to what..

It was only after your statement that I gave, IMO, more of an observation, than an opinion. The internal players did not overwhelm the external players with their internal skills, when it came to actual sparring. Their actual fighting skills seem to be lacking, regardless of their internal strength and body skills training.

[cloudz]

you get good at sparring by sparring; you get good at fighting by fighting. Is that news to anyone anymore..

That's why it would be nice if you posted coherently what you are posting about.
clips are all well and good, but expecting people to know or guess what you are trying to get at like it's some kind of puzzle is poor form to me.

So we have come back to certain people wanting to make it style vs. style or the merits of sparring v not sparring, trad. vs. sport etc.

It's so predictable and boring, what do you even get from it other than some sense of superiority?
Did someone appoint you to police everyone's martial arts practice?
Or to state the blindingly obvious repeatedly ad nauseum, ad infinatum. In case there's some poor fucker left out there that needs saving from themselves.

I don't know why Strange had such a reaction to that other guy.. I thought it was innocuous, but in that rant there was a point to be made about "intention" in a certain context...
But you seem to have taken it on yourself to make this more of the same style v style, trad. v sport, sparring v not sparring narratives people love so much.

I'm not sure who needs the convincing on forums anymore or who needs to hear that story for the 10,000th time. I think it's the people telling it, frankly.
Who love to hear themselves telling it so much and how it makes them feel.. And I say that as someone who got the T shirt so long ago, it's so washed out, and well worn that it's embarrassing to wear out anymore.

So I threw it out. Bully for me eh?

[marvin8]

That's why it would be nice if you posted coherently what you are posting about.
clips are all well and good, but expecting people to know or guess what you are trying to get at like it's some kind of puzzle is poor form to me.

So we have come back to certain people wanting to make it style vs. style or the merits of sparring v not sparring, trad. vs. sport etc.

No. It’s the opposite.
I find many IMA like to say their style is so much more different than EMA. However when it comes to sparring or self-defense, IMO, they are more similar.

My initial sarcastic post was in response to the remarks I have read, "IMA technique is more powerful than EMA technique, because of internal power training. Also, the internal mind training better prepares the internal player for a fight, than the external player." EMA has their own power and mind training. One way to see if there is truth to these IMA statements is to watch sparring matches and their outcomes.

It's so predictable and boring, what do you even get from it other than some sense of superiority?
Did someone appoint you to police everyone's martial arts practice?

No. It’s the opposite.
Again, I wanted to let the viewer decide what they got out of the video. So, I did not comment on it. Only after you implied I was incoherent, did I comment. Then when I do reply, trying to be more polite to you, you imply I must have a superiority complex or policing.

The viewer got to see players with internal intention training, use this training in a sparring/fight match. What the viewer saw is an individual perspective. For example, the viewer may see how the internal intention gave the fighter an advantage or see something else. Here is a previous rumsoakedfist thread about the same video, where members gave their opinions: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15368&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[cloudz]

"let the viewer decide"

Ah ok, like an advertising agency. That's really smart being so indirect isn't it.
Admirable too, and just so relevant to the discussion we were having..

Excuse me while I blow my brains out.

[dspyrido]

You're a pretty incoherent whiny fella aren't you? Here have another smiley for the stupid part of your post.

But since intention has come up I will tell you what my sifu told me. Intention is all about what you want to apply in training so that it comes out in a fight.

In a fight if someone spits in your face and you want to calmly walk away then you calmly walk away. But if you choose to fight and want to be "vicious" then your intention is categorically 110% "vicious".

But to explain it with an example. As another xinyi sifu had told me when he was confronted by someone ... he simply picked them up by the armpits, pinned them to the wall and said "If you want to keep going then I will cut you like a chicken". His intent was 110% very clear and focused & the other guy got the message.

Now being able to have this control over this mindset and apply it into training to be calm when wanted yet go beyond the normal human capability when needed is all about "intention". The guy in the op has some phenomenal intention. No spongey push hands that lack real intent (vs. good push hands that also have good intent). No bullshit statements around fighting at the "intention level". Just great focused training.

You can choose to be offended by this or understand it but deep down I know my post will be wasted. So have another smiley.

Your language might be confusing

if you do internal training and your first understanding is using it to build your body, you wouldn't so easily confuse that with what you are discussing. Your use is very English language; that meaning, that definition. In IMA's it is discussed and used differently - especially at what should be the first stage. First you develop it and use it in various ways on yourself.

Having certain demeanours or expressing some sort of outer intention for any given task is for everyone. That's why people get frustrated round here sometimes, i think..

What can I say. Even face to face it would take a fair amount of examples & discussion time. Over the net is far worse.

What you read in my previous comment is pure intention when applied but its just an example not the training method. As for intention in IMA? These sorts of statements were made by mainland chinese internal martial artists who had decades of practise in the three imas and definitely could apply it.

As for ....

First you develop it and use it in various ways on yourself.

Agreed. Three years minimum to build the foundation. First lower, then middle then upper. This is a reference for the body and the mind which are developed in unison. This is also in line with building the harmonies which are internal and external. The intent is used to focus the will (yi) which is used to develop the strength from deep within and align it with all the harmonies. These harmonies are developed using "kung fu" mindset which is great ability learnt by applying the focus to build capability. The build process is further developed using visualisation methods that focus the mind on and in the body in a way that produces potential to apply from any position and any angle.

I can go further but as mentioned it's probably not going to come across clearly.

[cloudz]

well, FWIW, I did think what you said was pretty innocuous and "obvious", rather than something to get worked up about.
I was surprised at the scale of the reaction, so I just figure you two might have previous or something /

Knowing something about your posting, you don't strike me as someone who doesn't understand or train CIMA by way of "intention".

But sometimes I think some things are too obvious, like hitting with power, or surviving..
Someone like Marvin can take those obvious things and run with them - to the stage where a more "to the point" understanding of Yi in the CIMA gets relegated or missed by some people..

I don't know any system/ martial artists or common people that can't see the obviousness (obvious utility and benefit of) of "hitting hard" and "survival".
I'm sure all have articulated and discussed such matters at any given time. regardless of monikers and labels attached the their style/system.

I guess it's the nature of the net. Small things get overblown and sometimes things get mistook or overlooked sometimes.