warning Corky + Aikido. Move along, nothing to see here.

[emptycloud]

The one issue I have with this approach, is that the actual specific and discrete mechanical processes involved in this kind of movement are not parsed out and explained. Instead, people are introduced to vaguer senses and feelings that, when they hit on them just right, have an effect. I wonder how many people go back and re-create those situations and sensations, and then try to figure out what the actual muscle/tissue groups are that are being employed, and how.

It is very hard to turn this kind of approach into martial application, as there is too much abstract "stuff" in the way between intent and clean, direct action, IMO. Sure, use these anecdotal scenarios ("Could I have a glass of water...?") to introduce people to the concept of intent and how it drives movement, but after one or two examples, go right into breaking the process down so students can recognize, isolate and activate the specific things that must be conditioned into serving the special roles to which they will be put.

The "metaphoric" approach (the classic "imagine your arm filling with water like a hose..." is probably the best-known one in aikido) does not provide an adequate understanding of the mechanisms involved in internal power, and is, IMO, the reason why aikido people can often do these as discrete "parlor tricks," but don't understand what makes them work or that there is a full set of underlying body mechanics involved, and can't make them work under duress in their aikido.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCJ58divXWE

Wish I had time to write more but don't...hopefully later... Corky on " what if "..

[leftwose]

Ended up watching some Corky vids tonight. It wasn't because of this thread, or whatever lead to this thread. At some point I did realize that this was the guy that this thread was about.

Every Art has it's issue with explaining these concepts. Old Skool Chinese arts got Poetical... This is not a mechanistic discussion, intentionally. F=MA is a starting point. F=MA is a discussion about sanweihe.

So,how does one talk about sanneihe?

.conal.

[WVMark]

Wish I had time to write more but don't...hopefully later... Corky on " what if "..

He really should leave Ueshiba/O-sensei out of his videos and explanations and just talk about what he thinks is peace, love, blending in a martial encounter. What he's showing isn't really the same as Ueshiba's aikido. Whether or not what he's doing is valid, right, wrong, good, bad is irrelevant to my point, so don't think I'm being dismissive of Corky. If he, and others, find value in what they're doing, that's great. But it isn't the same thing as Ueshiba's aikido. Now, how close it is to Kisshomaru Ueshiba's vision of aikido for the modern world ... now, that's a topic requiring a good bit of research.

Mark

[Itten]

I don't know if corky himself can use his aikido in a "what if" but it scares the hell out of me that he teaches this to people with any suggestion that it is self defence relevant. Personally, as a teacher of aikido who has also worked with security and police guys, I think this is tantamount to BS and another reason why aikido has such a bad reputation. Also i am convinced that the early adoption of aikido by a bunch of '60s hippies based upon bad interpretations of Ueshiba's writings and saying has spawned a whole generation of philosophical crap. Almost all sincere MA share the idea of forbearance, chivalry, humility, non-aggression. We (in Aikido) don't have copyright or moral superiority. Empty cloud, I don't know where your head is at when you post this stuff. It seems you post mainly to get a rise out of people and then duck and dive. i guess thats a kind of aikido?
Mark, in principle i agree with you and with Chris's improved translations and interpretations, but I've been in japan a dozen times, trained with many of the old shihan. my last teacher was Hombu passport number 6. none of them really knew what Ueshiba was on about, all agreed that whatever it was, it was different to anything they knew or could do. Most of them follow the Hombu line and speak about world peace and harmony but that is mostly post WW2 trauma and propaganda, left to play they can all be pretty nasty (in a "good" way of course) but very few show anything unusual. So how do you know what Ueshiba's aikido is or isn't? With respect, as far as I know you don't practise aikido, so is this based upon your research?
Alec

[willie]

Aiki & Connection George Ledyard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYaPreOPWOA

I really like this stuff

check out these two clips by nick lowry. they are similar to ledyard videos. you might find it interesting.





in the last 20 minutes of the second video(part 2) he gets deeper on internal stuff

.

Most of the content in these video's is from Chen and Yang taiji.
The man that fills like a balloon was shown to me about 14 years ago by my yang teacher.
The vectoring stuff was taught to me by a couple different Chen teachers.
A lot of that is just basic stuff that has been modified. I like it.

Now, if we get into Corky's video. This is advanced stuff.
I was exposed to something like this kind of art as well, but it was not from aikido.
It was from a taiji guy who cross trained Yang / ninjutsu.
There is a lot of good stuff in this video, but I have found that while searching deep into
the aspects of Yin energy and expanding it's range of effectiveness, The Yang side never gets developed and sometimes depleted.
I was just telling this to a yang / silat guy. His attacks were half a man. A yin man. "We are not meant to be half a man".
I'm going to add this part just for Strange, cause he likes my terms.
The importance of compartmentalization.
A teacher may say, You need to get in touch with your yin side. That's his view. Sometimes his view is instantly cemented into
reality just because someone admired him. That's why I say "noted" and then compartmentalized. it keeps fact from fiction.


There is a need to expand the useable yang side to an equally developed stage.

[Interloper]

willie,
I believe that Nick Lowry and George Ledyard both have been working with the same individual(s) to attain the material they are demonstrating, which is why their work looks similar. The beauty of internal method is that it is applicable to virtually any martial or other physical discipline. So, you can get practitioners of different arts who have a similar qualitative look/feel because they share an underlying thread.

[willie]

willie,
I believe that Nick Lowry and George Ledyard both have been working with the same individual(s) to attain the material they are demonstrating, which is why their work looks similar. The beauty of internal method is that it is applicable to virtually any martial or other physical discipline. So, you can get practitioners of different arts who have a similar qualitative look/feel because they share a underlying thread.

I wonder who that might be? LOL!
I don't have any problem with any of those video's.

thanks

[emptycloud]

I don't know if corky himself can use his aikido in a "what if" but it scares the hell out of me that he teaches this to people with any suggestion that it is self defence relevant. Personally, as a teacher of aikido who has also worked with security and police guys, I think this is tantamount to BS and another reason why aikido has such a bad reputation. Also i am convinced that the early adoption of aikido by a bunch of '60s hippies based upon bad interpretations of Ueshiba's writings and saying has spawned a whole generation of philosophical crap. Almost all sincere MA share the idea of forbearance, chivalry, humility, non-aggression. We (in Aikido) don't have copyright or moral superiority. Empty cloud, I don't know where your head is at when you post this stuff. It seems you post mainly to get a rise out of people and then duck and dive. i guess thats a kind of aikido?
Mark, in principle i agree with you and with Chris's improved translations and interpretations, but I've been in japan a dozen times, trained with many of the old shihan. my last teacher was Hombu passport number 6. none of them really knew what Ueshiba was on about, all agreed that whatever it was, it was different to anything they knew or could do. Most of them follow the Hombu line and speak about world peace and harmony but that is mostly post WW2 trauma and propaganda, left to play they can all be pretty nasty (in a "good" way of course) but very few show anything unusual. So how do you know what Ueshiba's aikido is or isn't? With respect, as far as I know you don't practise aikido, so is this based upon your research?
Alec

see original post for where my heads at, fairly graphic explanation...

Rich

[emptycloud]

the martial mullah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkI5QAI6eM