warning Corky + Aikido. Move along, nothing to see here.

[emptycloud]

I like this analogy, mental image...

I find routinely that been able to shift one's imagination during practice releases a tremendous amount of energy within the body.

I know some folks here think Corky a nut, a faker, a flunk....whatever..

I have no vested interest in Corky, I just like to explore how the imagination & energy operate to create dynamic spontaneous movement in partner work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxKQFxEZ0WA

[emptycloud]

Aiki & Connection George Ledyard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYaPreOPWOA

[WVMark]

Putting those two in the same thread is a horrible comparison. What George Ledyard is doing and/or talking about is not the same as what Corky is doing and/or talking about. If anyone doesn't understand the fundamental differences, I strongly suggest that you attend seminars by both. Get hands on time, talk to them, get them to teach you how they are doing what they are doing. Not the same thing.

That's not to say good, bad, right or wrong here. Make up your own mind.

For a short, concise overall picture, read Mark Freeman's blog on aikiweb. He met aikido teachers on his trip around the West Coast of the US and then formed his own opinion of who he wanted to train with. Kudos to Mark Freeman for getting out there.

Here is just a part of Day 6:

After finally getting my head clear, by being thrown around by Pacific Ocean waves, rather than Aikidoka, I begin Blog #6. This is my most interesting one to date (for me, anyway).

After a relatively short drive along the coast from Santa Barbara, I finally made Interstate 10 in Santa Monica, which took me to the mid Wilshire district of the city of LA. I was there to meet Corky Quakenbush, who I had wanted to meet, since Graham Christian had sent me a Youtube link of him, over 18 months ago. I had found the videos very interesting, and wrote to Corky to tell him so. We exchanged a couple of emails, and I said I would see him, when I made it down this way.

I remember speaking to Allister Gillies (a UK aikidoka and occasional contributor to aikiweb) at one of Dan's Seminars in London. He had trained with Corky in Japan when Sunadomari Sensei was still alive. Allister was a student of my teacher (Ken Williams) for a number of years, until around Nidan/Yondan I think. He said that Sunadomari was one teacher that he felt, who was even softer with more power than Sensei Williams. Personally, I would have loved to have felt that for myself.

Anyway, back in LA, I found Corky's place, and within a short time of my arrival, was on the mat training with him and Joyce, one of his students.

Now, it is going to be quite difficult for me to give a proper account, of what occurred in the following hour or so, that we practised. One of the qualities I feel I have, is the ability to adapt to what is being trained on the mat, very quickly. But Corky's method of training took me a little by surprise. I knew from his video's and from his website, that he is doing something that does not involve practising formal waza. Rather, he is operating a lab/experimental practice, that is fully focussed on the spiritual tenets of O'Sensei's teaching. This is why I wanted to meet him in the first place. What I fairly quickly found out was that, my 'training' in particular techniques, was often the thing that got in the way of the effortlessness of Corky's method. He is pursuing the formless (hence, no waza) resolution of conflict, in a way that I have not encountered elsewhere.
Anyone who has practiced with me will know that I will follow a technique with ease, however, I wont take a fall unless the technique is applied cleanly. We practised with attacks fully focussed on dominating tori's centre, often with unorthodox grabs applied to the whole arm, or sometimes even grabs to the throat.

The big difference between what I am used to, and what Corky is doing, is in that I was wanting to 'do' something to uke (which sometimes met with failure), and he was wanting let uke know that he was there, full of 'compassion' helping him to find a way back to themselves. Which as long as uke continued their attack on tori's centre, usually ended up on the mat. Rarely was there a recognisable aikido technique used, only connection and a correct mental/spiritual feeling extending to uke. There is much more to say about what is being done, but I am going to leave my attempt to explain more fully, once I have spent more time in the LA lab/dojo

Now, this may all sound a bit baffling, and it is, at least to me. I thought I was soft in .my application of aikido. But after a few minutes with Corky, I realised that if my limbic system is triggered (which it almost never is, in my regular practice) I can be as 'pushy' as the next man.

We sat up late into the night talking and drinking tea. I was glad that my instinct had brought me to this meeting. I know I may learn some profound lessons from this very interesting fellow.

We practised more of the same and many more variations, the following morning when there were a few more students present.

I left in plenty of time to make it down to Seal Beach and Dan's informal Friday night beach practice. 'In plenty of time' has a whole new meaning in LA, it was only about 20 or so miles down to Seal beach, but LA freeway driving is worse than the M25 London's orbital motorway. 2 hours of stop start driving...yuck!

It was good to see Dan again and good to meet Gary as well. The beach session was fun and not too taxing, a nice start to the weekend.

The seminar itself was the same but different, from those I had experienced in London. As has been pointed out on the form thread, there was much more focus on detailed explanation, lead by questions from the floor. This suited many if not most of the participants. Personally, I would have preferred a bit more paired training, but that is a minor gripe, I was happy to soak up the detail along with the rest of the folk there.

In some ways it was a difficult weekend for me. I was pretty exhausted from the previous almost two weeks of daily aikido practice and travelling. Plus I had just encountered a method of practice that had really piqued my curiosity. And while not completely completely different, the two methods were creating a mental tension, My mind was pretty occupied and Dan's formidable knowledge was was wanting to find it's way in as well.

Dan is a formidable fellow, a more consummate martial artist I have not yet met. He has an excellent model for achieving the aiki body and a great way of teaching, plenty of humour and a total focus on transmission of what is needed to be done to achieve progress.
Anyone reading this, who may be considering the possibility of going to see Dan, I suggest you beg, borrow or steal the time and money and go and get some hands on time with him. He may be the closest you ever get to Ueshiba's aiki.

Having said that, I am looking forward to my return to spend more time with Corky in his lab, to explore the more spiritual/philosophical approach. So I'll write up what occurs, once it has.

[emptycloud]

Putting those two in the same thread is a horrible comparison. What George Ledyard is doing and/or talking about is not the same as what Corky is doing and/or talking about. If anyone doesn't understand the fundamental differences, I strongly suggest that you attend seminars by both. Get hands on time, talk to them, get them to teach you how they are doing what they are doing. Not the same thing.

That's not to say good, bad, right or wrong here. Make up your own mind.

For a short, concise overall picture, read Mark Freeman's blog on aikiweb. He met aikido teachers on his trip around the West Coast of the US and then formed his own opinion of who he wanted to train with. Kudos to Mark Freeman for getting out there.

Here is just a part of Day 6:

After finally getting my head clear, by being thrown around by Pacific Ocean waves, rather than Aikidoka, I begin Blog #6. This is my most interesting one to date (for me, anyway).

After a relatively short drive along the coast from Santa Barbara, I finally made Interstate 10 in Santa Monica, which took me to the mid Wilshire district of the city of LA. I was there to meet Corky Quakenbush, who I had wanted to meet, since Graham Christian had sent me a Youtube link of him, over 18 months ago. I had found the videos very interesting, and wrote to Corky to tell him so. We exchanged a couple of emails, and I said I would see him, when I made it down this way.

I remember speaking to Allister Gillies (a UK aikidoka and occasional contributor to aikiweb) at one of Dan's Seminars in London. He had trained with Corky in Japan when Sunadomari Sensei was still alive. Allister was a student of my teacher (Ken Williams) for a number of years, until around Nidan/Yondan I think. He said that Sunadomari was one teacher that he felt, who was even softer with more power than Sensei Williams. Personally, I would have loved to have felt that for myself.

Anyway, back in LA, I found Corky's place, and within a short time of my arrival, was on the mat training with him and Joyce, one of his students.

Now, it is going to be quite difficult for me to give a proper account, of what occurred in the following hour or so, that we practised. One of the qualities I feel I have, is the ability to adapt to what is being trained on the mat, very quickly. But Corky's method of training took me a little by surprise. I knew from his video's and from his website, that he is doing something that does not involve practising formal waza. Rather, he is operating a lab/experimental practice, that is fully focussed on the spiritual tenets of O'Sensei's teaching. This is why I wanted to meet him in the first place. What I fairly quickly found out was that, my 'training' in particular techniques, was often the thing that got in the way of the effortlessness of Corky's method. He is pursuing the formless (hence, no waza) resolution of conflict, in a way that I have not encountered elsewhere.
Anyone who has practiced with me will know that I will follow a technique with ease, however, I wont take a fall unless the technique is applied cleanly. We practised with attacks fully focussed on dominating tori's centre, often with unorthodox grabs applied to the whole arm, or sometimes even grabs to the throat.

The big difference between what I am used to, and what Corky is doing, is in that I was wanting to 'do' something to uke (which sometimes met with failure), and he was wanting let uke know that he was there, full of 'compassion' helping him to find a way back to themselves. Which as long as uke continued their attack on tori's centre, usually ended up on the mat. Rarely was there a recognisable aikido technique used, only connection and a correct mental/spiritual feeling extending to uke. There is much more to say about what is being done, but I am going to leave my attempt to explain more fully, once I have spent more time in the LA lab/dojo

Now, this may all sound a bit baffling, and it is, at least to me. I thought I was soft in .my application of aikido. But after a few minutes with Corky, I realised that if my limbic system is triggered (which it almost never is, in my regular practice) I can be as 'pushy' as the next man.

We sat up late into the night talking and drinking tea. I was glad that my instinct had brought me to this meeting. I know I may learn some profound lessons from this very interesting fellow.

We practised more of the same and many more variations, the following morning when there were a few more students present.

I left in plenty of time to make it down to Seal Beach and Dan's informal Friday night beach practice. 'In plenty of time' has a whole new meaning in LA, it was only about 20 or so miles down to Seal beach, but LA freeway driving is worse than the M25 London's orbital motorway. 2 hours of stop start driving...yuck!

It was good to see Dan again and good to meet Gary as well. The beach session was fun and not too taxing, a nice start to the weekend.

The seminar itself was the same but different, from those I had experienced in London. As has been pointed out on the form thread, there was much more focus on detailed explanation, lead by questions from the floor. This suited many if not most of the participants. Personally, I would have preferred a bit more paired training, but that is a minor gripe, I was happy to soak up the detail along with the rest of the folk there.

In some ways it was a difficult weekend for me. I was pretty exhausted from the previous almost two weeks of daily aikido practice and travelling. Plus I had just encountered a method of practice that had really piqued my curiosity. And while not completely completely different, the two methods were creating a mental tension, My mind was pretty occupied and Dan's formidable knowledge was was wanting to find it's way in as well.

Dan is a formidable fellow, a more consummate martial artist I have not yet met. He has an excellent model for achieving the aiki body and a great way of teaching, plenty of humour and a total focus on transmission of what is needed to be done to achieve progress.
Anyone reading this, who may be considering the possibility of going to see Dan, I suggest you beg, borrow or steal the time and money and go and get some hands on time with him. He may be the closest you ever get to Ueshiba's aiki.

Having said that, I am looking forward to my return to spend more time with Corky in his lab, to explore the more spiritual/philosophical approach. So I'll write up what occurs, once it has.

Hi Mark,

I don't compare them, perhaps its the way i'm wired. I derive sense and practice study from both Ledyard & Corky. I guess it comes down to defining the purpose of practice. My primary purpose of aikido & tai chi practice is to enjoy it. In the pursuit of this enjoyment I am an open system as to how others manifest the arts.

I take what I find useful to my purpose of practice from wherever I can find it, and ditch that which is purposeless to my pursuit of enjoying the arts. (Thats not to say I don't plateau and spend long periods of frustration in training, its the same with any skill, we all know that.)

In training for self protection, I have absolute faith in the arts and this has proven itself a number of times. Thanks for the link to Mark Freemans blog.

Rich

[cloudz]

I don't compare them, perhaps its the way i'm wired. I derive sense and practice study from both Ledyard & Corky. I guess it comes down to defining the purpose of practice. My primary purpose of aikido & tai chi practice is to enjoy it. In the pursuit of this enjoyment I am an open system as to how others manifest the arts.

I take what I find useful to my purpose of practice from wherever I can find it, and ditch that which is purposeless to my pursuit of enjoying the arts. (Thats not to say I don't plateau and spend long periods of frustration in training, its the same with any skill, we all know that.)

nice one Rich
+1

[middleway]

I don't compare them, perhaps its the way i'm wired. I derive sense and practice study from both Ledyard & Corky. I guess it comes down to defining the purpose of practice. My primary purpose of aikido & tai chi practice is to enjoy it. In the pursuit of this enjoyment I am an open system as to how others manifest the arts.

I take what I find useful to my purpose of practice from wherever I can find it, and ditch that which is purposeless to my pursuit of enjoying the arts. (Thats not to say I don't plateau and spend long periods of frustration in training, its the same with any skill, we all know that.)

Agreed! great attitude!

[emptycloud]

I just got this sent to me for starting this thread - funny ole world - guess I'm toast... whats so wrong with Corky.. also a false thread was started under my name hijacking a vid relevant and graphic to this thread - weird I tell ya, weird.


Board warning issued
Sent at: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:12 pm
From:
To: emptycloud

Watch yourself.

[windwalker]

edited:

[emptycloud]

I just got this sent to me for starting this thread - funny ole world - guess I'm toast... whats so wrong with Corky.. also a false thread was started under my name hijacking a vid relevant and graphic to this thread - weird I tell ya, weird.


Board warning issued
Sent at: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:12 pm
From:
To: emptycloud

Watch yourself.

indeed

This was the redacted version. I was hoping to unpost but you already quoted me. Karma.

[xxxxx]

Methinks you left out the first part of the warning, Rich.

[emptycloud]

Methinks you left out the first part of the warning, Rich.

Board warning issued
Sent at: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:12 pm
From:
To: emptycloud

The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.
Please provide context as to why you are providing a video clip, particularly when you are deliberately trolling, as with the posting of the clip on the "Corky and Aikido" thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeJ7TDYC0k.

We are getting tired of the fetishistic delight you seem to get in stirring up predictable shit storms here at RSF. Yes, the other parties involved have been cautioned. Watch yourself.

[cloudz]

Aiki & Connection George Ledyard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYaPreOPWOA

I really like this stuff
there's a lot of info in that part 1 seminar, my lazy ass hasn't managed to get beyond part 1 yet.
Haven't really got into Corky stuff yet, there's so much stuff out there I can't hack too much overload.

I first saw the Leynard clip seminar part1 a while back and I like the aiki-age set up to work with some things as is being shown and worked with it a bit.
I re-watched when this came up and I think I appreciated it even more second time, and I don't think I even made it to the end.

really glad this is out there, it's packed with tasty golden nuggets.
One day, I might even make it through all the parts lol.

[emptycloud]

more Corky..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgol0jCdtdc

[Interloper]

The one issue I have with this approach, is that the actual specific and discrete mechanical processes involved in this kind of movement are not parsed out and explained. Instead, people are introduced to vaguer senses and feelings that, when they hit on them just right, have an effect. I wonder how many people go back and re-create those situations and sensations, and then try to figure out what the actual muscle/tissue groups are that are being employed, and how.

It is very hard to turn this kind of approach into martial application, as there is too much abstract "stuff" in the way between intent and clean, direct action, IMO. Sure, use these anecdotal scenarios ("Could I have a glass of water...?") to introduce people to the concept of intent and how it drives movement, but after one or two examples, go right into breaking the process down so students can recognize, isolate and activate the specific things that must be conditioned into serving the special roles to which they will be put.

The "metaphoric" approach (the classic "imagine your arm filling with water like a hose..." is probably the best-known one in aikido) does not provide an adequate understanding of the mechanisms involved in internal power, and is, IMO, the reason why aikido people can often do these as discrete "parlor tricks," but don't understand what makes them work or that there is a full set of underlying body mechanics involved, and can't make them work under duress in their aikido.

[littlepanda]

Aiki & Connection George Ledyard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYaPreOPWOA

I really like this stuff

check out these two clips by nick lowry. they are similar to ledyard videos. you might find it interesting.





in the last 20 minutes of the second video(part 2) he gets deeper on internal stuff

.