Oh boy- don't follow the hunched back

[Bao]

Great stories.

... for old age man kind of exercises are good. Tai chi is good as well. William Chen is 85 years old and has a very strong body.

Or...
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lessons ... ilder.html

[windwalker]

Maybe ... but to a good coach, the method that works for him isn't necessarily relevant. Good PT's don't put their 50 something obese clients through their own personal training regime, Good nutritionists don't put everyone on the diet they follow or a one size fits all diet plan. Why should the martial arts coaches be any different or held to a different set of standards?

Most of the taiji coaches I know are very careful about tailoring their practices to the persons capabilities.

Again, I accept that there are some major assumptions going on here, but they help us to discuss a problem with this precise method.

Throwing this curved spine method at a group of people well known to be ingraining postural problems through the nature of their jobs, is not justifiable simply because of who he is, someone must be able to justify it mechanically for the group?

why would anyone have too, you've already limited yourself to what you know and see. Does any one think that these people are not aware or are stupid. Or can not ask the teacher why its done like that.

I see a stretched back in accordance with the way some teachers interpret taiji principles. In looking at other clips of him and comparisons with tung/dong style which I've studied it seems similar, also with wu stylist I know with what is called a lean which is not really.

It's not an approach I take but I do feel I can understand the reasons for those who might.

I work at a desk most of the day and much of my 2 hour morning IMA sessions are devoted to diminishing the impact of that job as i age. If i trained this way i can be assured of compounding the problems for myself.

Hard to say since you've never trained under this teacher and wont be "RIP"

My own teacher at 80 when I met him did some things which I felt where very bad for the knees. I had asked about this and he mentioned his rational and also the fact that at 80 he had not damaged them...

I did hurt mine by thinking I knew what he was doing and how he was doing it...trying to do it...Feeling I did know based onmany yrs of CMA practice.

I went back ,watched and practiced until I understood what was going on, the how, what and why......I would think that those practicing with him trying to copy something they can't do "yet" will be corrected at some point in time or ask for a better understanding as to why the practice is done so.

This teacher has a long history of producing students who used their art in the ring and teaching others....To use him as an example of what not to do, with out understanding or at least having studied with him or his group seems misguided.

[Bao]

To use him as an example of what not to do, with out understanding or at least having studied with him or his group seems misguided.

But using him as an example of what to do, without understanding or at least having studied with him or his group seems equally misguided.

And that's the point people trying to make. The problem is that many people who watch a vid or a TV-interview with someone labeled as a "master" will believe that this is the way to do things. They will try to copy without proper quidance. And for some groups copying without guidance might be worse than for other groups. I agree with that promoting this kind of back posture for office workers is quite absurd, and that is exactly what the vid does without the context of proper guidance from the teacher. What the teacher actually teach in class and how, or if he can fight, have nothing to do with what is actually shown here and how it's shown. It's a form demonstration with office workers, not a fighting clip.

Why discuss what the vid is not instead of discussing the vid for what it actually is?

[windwalker]

Why discuss what the vid is not instead of discussing the vid for what it actually is?

I dont have a problem with the way he preforms his form and as I've stated I feel that I can understand the reasons for why he does so.
For me its not an issue, as to others shown in the clip I give them enough credit to question what they practice and find their own answers.

As for what it actually is,,its a small clip of time not really enough IMO to give a good sample of his work,
unless one has some type of understanding of the why and what their looking at they may or not agree....not here to convince one way or the other...

When I wondered I checked his history to confirm my initial thoughts which some former students who've contacted me about them said I was more or less consistent with their understanding and experience.

[Bao]

Why discuss what the vid is not instead of discussing the vid for what it actually is?

I dont have a problem with they way he preforms his form and as I've stated I feel that I can understand the reasons for why he does so.
....
As for what it actually is,,its a small clip of time not really enough IMO to give a good sample of his work,
unless one has some type of understanding of the why and what their looking at....not here to convince one way or the other...

I understand what you are saying. But still, it's a public demonstration, not something that happening inside locked doors. What happens inside the school have nothing to do with how it's perceived by people that are not his students. You are still talking about what is not shown. That is not important. The vid is made for people who don't know what you know.

Is the vid in general good for the kind of people shown in the vid? Is it a good demonstration of tai chi in general? Does it make tai chi practice justice (in general)?

[middleway]

Windwalker,

You are unable to discuss the topics I raise so we are ultimately not getting anywhere here. I can retort again but you will not engage. I don't think we could ever be in useful dialog when your standard position is 'He is a well known master and is correct at everything, in every context, by default'.

You have reverted to this position on a huge number of topics now and, as admirable as your respect for these people you call masters is, it shuts down reasoned discussion or honest exploration and sharing of ideas.

Your position is one i could never share, but if you are happy there then that's all that matters i guess.

cheers
Chris.

[grzegorz]

I haven't read the whole thread but I did watch the original video so I am not sure where my comments fit in but I can say that I have been trying to undo some of these types of "old man" patterns in my posture from years of CMA. I think you can do "these things" but they need to balanced with stretching the back back.

[northern_mantis]

I'm a bit late to the party on this thread but that video is painful to watch let alone recreate. IMHO focusing on a suspended head top is the place to start and keep returning to in the context of teaching office stiffs.

[Greg J]

The technique shown in the OP's video did not make sense to me from a body health perspective, and made even less sense as a "go to" corrective exercise for office workers.

This guy (Elliot Hulse) has a big personality that can be a bit annoying, and his discipline is bodybuilding. In this video he addresses exercise-induced Neanderthal neck, and mentions the importance of a straight back. And I think the bigger point of this video - that improper posture while exercising can lead to structural imbalance and injury - is sound.



Bao, the article you shared is amazing! Haven't had chance to check out his TED talk, but hope to do so this evening.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lessons ... ilder.html

Thanks for sharing!

Best,
Greg