soft Roy

[Itten]

Thank you Bao, I appear to have the same problems as you. An inability to read or comprehend but at least you are witty. I agree that throwing yourself on command visas bizarre as tai chi bunny hopping. I absolutely do not believe that you have to choose between hard and soft. To think that way shows juvenile understanding. I will do as I like, after all, it's only net chatter. Thank you for your hospitality.

[Bao]

Thank you Itten for reaching out a hand and trying to discuss. Not easy.... It never is on these boards. Better to meet up and speak in person.

Cheers!
/David

[emptycloud]

aiki teachers speaking about their arts


some guy Tony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em7XUh2wMWM

and that bloke Roy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVgD3BYhd8

[emptycloud]

Roy Goldberg in slo-mo..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITBm7Tj95w

[charles]

Roy Goldberg in slo-mo..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITBm7Tj95w

I know next to nothing of Aikido. I don't understand what is happening/being shown in the video clip. Perhaps someone knowledgeable can explain it to me.

The large guy grabs, with his right hand, the small guy's outstretched right wrist. The small guy extends forwards/upwards/to his right some/slightly. This seems to compel the large guy to lock his right arm and raise his right shoulder and then step to his left. I don't understand why. The large guy is wearing a black (brown?) belt so is, presumably, not a beginner. What is the small guy doing that compels this reaction in the larger guy?

Granted, we are watching the action is slow motion, but why doesn't the large guy just let go or redirect the forces being applied, particularly since he is not a beginner? The small guy hasn't physically prevented the large guy from letting go, nor have the forces applied prevent him from letting go. Is this just a case of the large guy being a stiff "dummy" on which to apply the technique? What prevents the large guy from dropping, rather than raising, his right elbow and shoulder, neutralizing the applied upward, forward action?

Once, the large guy has stepped, having the small guy apply leverage to the large guy's elbow, again, seems like it would only work if the large guy continues to hold onto the small guy's right wrist. If he were to let go, the small guy would simply be pushing down on the large guy's elbow, with no leverage. By not letting go, the large guy sets himself up for the leverage. Or so it seems to me.

[willie]

[windwalker]

Roy Goldberg in slo-mo..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITBm7Tj95w

I know next to nothing of Aikido. I don't understand what is happening/being shown in the video clip. Perhaps someone knowledgeable can explain it to me.

The large guy grabs, with his right hand, the small guy's outstretched right wrist. The small guy extends forwards/upwards/to his right some/slightly. This seems to compel the large guy to lock his right arm and raise his right shoulder and then step to his left. I don't understand why. The large guy is wearing a black (brown?) belt so is, presumably, not a beginner. What is the small guy doing that compels this reaction in the larger guy?

Granted, we are watching the action is slow motion, but why doesn't the large guy just let go or redirect the forces being applied, particularly since he is not a beginner? The small guy hasn't physically prevented the large guy from letting go, nor have the forces applied prevent him from letting go. Is this just a case of the large guy being a stiff "dummy" on which to apply the technique? What prevents the large guy from dropping, rather than raising, his right elbow and shoulder, neutralizing the applied upward, forward action?

Once, the large guy has stepped, having the small guy apply leverage to the large guy's elbow, again, seems like it would only work if the large guy continues to hold onto the small guy's right wrist. If he were to let go, the small guy would simply be pushing down on the large guy's elbow, with no leverage. By not letting go, the large guy sets himself up for the leverage. Or so it seems to me.

how do you, and what do you "stick" to in taiji?

[Interloper]

My take:
The first thing happening, is nage (the person doing the method) is grounding out the attacker's force from the grab, then expanding out and slightly upward to off-balance the attacker. Then, almost simultaneously but really just slightly after, he opens and closes his inguinal creases while rooting, to take the attacker off line and set him up for a throw.

Another detail: When the attacker first grabs nage's wrist, it looks to me that nage rotates his arm (not using arm/shoulder muscles, but actually a manipulation from the opposite-side ground) so that the attacker's radius and ulna twist and cross, which causes great pain in addition to that feeding force locking up his shoulder, and then his hip. When nage opens-closes, the attacker is moved by his locked-up structure.

[windwalker]

My take:
The first thing happening, is nage (the person doing the method) is grounding out the attacker's force from the grab, then expanding out and slightly upward to off-balance the attacker. Then, almost simultaneously but really just slightly after, he opens and closes his inguinal creases while rooting, to take the attacker off line and set him up for a throw.

Another detail: When the attacker first grabs nage's wrist, it looks to me that nage rotates his arm (not using arm/shoulder muscles, but actually a manipulation from the opposite-side ground) so that the attacker's radius and ulna twist and cross, which causes great pain in addition to that feeding force locking up his shoulder, and then his hip. When nage opens-closes, the attacker is moved by his locked-up structure.

+1

nice and detalied write up,,,

The question as to why he doesn't just let go, is because he "can't"

In the many taiji clips showing similar things by different teachers on different people
the explanation for whats happening is very consistent as are the reactions.

[Interloper]

My take:
The first thing happening, is nage (the person doing the method) is grounding out the attacker's force from the grab, then expanding out and slightly upward to off-balance the attacker. Then, almost simultaneously but really just slightly after, he opens and closes his inguinal creases while rooting, to take the attacker off line and set him up for a throw.

Another detail: When the attacker first grabs nage's wrist, it looks to me that nage rotates his arm (not using arm/shoulder muscles, but actually a manipulation from the opposite-side ground) so that the attacker's radius and ulna twist and cross, which causes great pain in addition to that feeding force locking up his shoulder, and then his hip. When nage opens-closes, the attacker is moved by his locked-up structure.

+1

nice and detalied write up,,,
I would talk about the contact point "yin/yang" ect from a taiji perspective
The question as to why he doesn't just let go, is because he "can't"

In the many taiji clips showing similar things by different teachers on different people
the expnaltion for whats happening is very consistent

As long as the attacker grabs with honest, healthy force, he will create a pathway for nage to feed returned force down to the center of mass, through the locked-up frame. As nage continues to feed that force, he can keep the attacker temporarily locked up, hopefully just long enough to carry off a throw, choke, etc.

The problem is, this will NOT work on someone who does not make a committed grab. If you go all limp-noodle on someone, they won't be able to make you stick. That's when fajin striking comes in handy.

[windwalker]

My take:
The first thing happening, is nage (the person doing the method) is grounding out the attacker's force from the grab, then expanding out and slightly upward to off-balance the attacker. Then, almost simultaneously but really just slightly after, he opens and closes his inguinal creases while rooting, to take the attacker off line and set him up for a throw.

Another detail: When the attacker first grabs nage's wrist, it looks to me that nage rotates his arm (not using arm/shoulder muscles, but actually a manipulation from the opposite-side ground) so that the attacker's radius and ulna twist and cross, which causes great pain in addition to that feeding force locking up his shoulder, and then his hip. When nage opens-closes, the attacker is moved by his locked-up structure.

+1

nice and detalied write up,,,
I would talk about the contact point "yin/yang" ect from a taiji perspective
The question as to why he doesn't just let go, is because he "can't"

In the many taiji clips showing similar things by different teachers on different people
the expnaltion for whats happening is very consistent

As long as the attacker grabs with honest, healthy force, he will create a pathway for nage to feed returned force down to the center of mass, through the locked-up frame. As nage continues to feed that force, he can keep the attacker temporarily locked up, hopefully just long enough to carry off a throw, choke, etc.

The problem is, this will NOT work on someone who does not make a committed grab. If you go all limp-noodle on someone, they won't be able to make you stick. That's when fajin striking comes in handy.

I really dont want to say much and mess the thread up.....
I will only say that "limp noodle" is relative to the level of the person doing it.

"limp noodle" wont work on someone who has a " real" developed inner skill set....
about as much as I will say,,,other wise it will tend to mess the tread up,,,BTDT

[Interloper]

I really dont want to say much and mess the thread up.....
I will only say that "limp noodle" is relative to the level of the person doing it.

"limp noodle" wont work on someone who has a " real" developed inner skill set....
about as much as I will say,,,other wise it will tend to mess the tread up,,,BTDT

Lol. Yes, that's true. You can change up quickly to create the path, or else connect without the arms or grab at all and move right into the core. I'm just referring to these demos where the demonstrator is banking on a good, solid grab that doesn't happen.
Converse of limp noodles, if you have internal skills yourself you can feed force back into the demonstrator and neutralize his force. Then, again, it becomes a game of who can change up and create the path and conditions.

[Interloper]

windwalker,
Changeups:

[charles]

Thanks, all, for your explanations.

[emptycloud]

Roy's in the house, get your ukemi on..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDQX4dtom8