soft Roy

[Itten]

Gotcha

[Bao]

When seated you have to learn to use the connection between the area of the tanden, front and back, and the the hand shapes created by the yin and yang lines of upper and lower arm extension.

Nah, I don't buy that... Of course you sit on your knees in case of that you are on your knees, sobbing there on the floor, because you have been robbed of all of your furniture. And then someone incidentally breaks in to your empty apartment, sit down in front of you and grab your fingers.

Occam's razor. This is the most obvious reason.

.... It must be terrifying, someone just sits down in front of you with the most evil smile saying: "ha! I am going to break your fingers". He must be very surprised when you throw him, making him roll pretty on the floor. So confused that he forgets that he have a knife and instead just run away screaming, terrified of your developed skill to counter his most refined technique, the secret "single finger hold".

[Itten]

Sorry Bao, You still don't really get it. That's a prayer to the big bad finger holder.

[junglist]

I have no doubt that Roy Goldberg has skills and can destroy balance easily I don't really like the way the use is tanking it. I've worked out with Roppokai guys and seen the same thing. They were able to take my balance but I didn't react the way these guys did. I don't get it.

[junglist]

When seated you have to learn to use the connection between the area of the tanden, front and back, and the the hand shapes created by the yin and yang lines of upper and lower arm extension.

Nah, I don't buy that... Of course you sit on your knees in case of that you are on your knees, sobbing there on the floor, because you have been robbed of all of your furniture. And then someone incidentally breaks in to your empty apartment, sit down in front of you and grab your fingers.

Occam's razor. This is the most obvious reason.

.... It must be terrifying, someone just sits down in front of you with the most evil smile saying: "ha! I am going to break your fingers". He must be very surprised when you throw him, making him roll pretty on the floor. So confused that he forgets that he have a knife and instead just run away screaming, terrified of your developed skill to counter his most refined technique, the secret "single finger hold".

Lol that's not the point. The point is can you control a resistant person using your finger? If so, then you understand some principle about alignment, connection, ki, or jin. And if you understand the principle then you can apply the same principles in punching, kicking, throwing, weapons--that is, anything related to combative movement. If you use your finger in a drill, you will NOT be able to control someone if you do it incorrectly (if you violate certain principles). With a wrist, it's easy to delude yourself that you're applying the principle.

[shawnsegler]

some guys goofing around with aiki dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XitZAYjzr-w

What's going on in this vid is vastly different than the video in the OP.

S

"Vastly" different... ? ... The uke here throws himself a bit prettier?

The demonstrator in this video is pretty obviously and forcefully locking the uke out and then forcing him back through his arms.



The uke in the OP is just flopping around and making noise from what is pretty obviously not anything.

S

[Bao]

Lol that's not the point. The point is can you control a resistant person using your finger?

While grieving at the cemetery? If a skeleton raised from the earth in front of me I would rather run... or poop my pants... than trying to apply subtle principles of leverage and angle.

... With a wrist, it's easy to delude yourself that you're applying the principle.

Yup, the truth is in the finger...
...There's no body. Only toe and finger. Even the wrist and knuckle is lead by the fingers...

Seriously though, the strongest finger is the pinky. I'm not joking, this is what my teacher used to say... ...
...and demonstrate...

[junglist]

Yeah you're getting put on ig. What kind of forum is this? Jeez.

[Bao]

It's an IMA board so I am citing one of the greatest tai chi masters alive...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr3hIb8jkys

... Where's your sense of humor?

(I probably won't get an answer on that question... Huh? )

[northern_mantis]

The demonstrator in this video is pretty obviously and forcefully locking the uke out and then forcing him back through his arms.



The uke in the OP is just flopping around and making noise from what is pretty obviously not anything.

S

+1

[willie]

It's an IMA board so I am citing one of the greatest tai chi masters alive...

I have a friend from Manhattan NYC. He went there for a while. He was very disappointed from what I heard and he returned back to his old school.
He says that they can fight, but don't really have tai chi, They are using k1. Is this true? Was that your teacher?

[Bao]

It's an IMA board so I am citing one of the greatest tai chi masters alive...

I have a friend from Manhattan NYC. He went there for a while. He was very disappointed from what I heard and he returned back to his old school.
He says that they can fight, but don't really have tai chi, They are using k1. Is this true? Was that your teacher?

No, but my first teacher studied briefly for William Chen about 20 years ago. He took some ideas on striking and whole body movement from Chen. Those things were very good and we developed them further. What we learned form him was powerful methods, things that can do some real damage. From what I understand, his tai chi is very good and genuine. But what his regular classes teaches, I have no idea about. Maybe your friend wants more traditional teaching?

[willie]

It's an IMA board so I am citing one of the greatest tai chi masters alive...

I have a friend from Manhattan NYC. He went there for a while. He was very disappointed from what I heard and he returned back to his old school.
He says that they can fight, but don't really have tai chi, They are using k1. Is this true? Was that your teacher?

No, but my first teacher studied briefly for William Chen about 20 years ago. He took some ideas on striking and whole body movement from Chen. Those things were very good and we developed them further. What we learned form him was powerful methods, things that can do some real damage. From what I understand, his tai chi is very good and genuine. But what his regular classes teaches, I have no idea about. Maybe your friend wants more traditional teaching?

I'm sure he's good. I'll leave it at that.

[Itten]

Bao,
I do not wish to offend anyone, especially people that others highly regard but I am as unimpressed by your Tai Chi master as I was by the original post. You either really don't get what is being discussed or you just prefer to be obtuse. Either way you are successful in ending the potential for a useful dialogue. Do you think that anyone who practices aikido for a quarter of a century along with other arts for another 15 years is a moron who thinks that finger locks and finger leverage work in combat? Training methods vary from art to art. Sometimes they take on a life of their own to the point that they seem ridiculous. I watch very good push hands where neither participant seems to be aware that they continually set themselves up for head butts. No problem, the rules don't allow that. But an outsider with some fighting experience would think it nonsense to condition yourself to sensitivity and balance whilst ignoring reality.
Anyway I'll drop it, not because my tender feelings are hurt ;-) but because it's a waste of time.

[Bao]

Bao,
I do not wish to offend anyone, especially people that others highly regard but I am as unimpressed by your Tai Chi master as I was by the original post. You either really don't get what is being discussed or you just prefer to be obtuse.

Not my teacher. I have never said that I have studied for him. If you don't read properly or try to understand what I write, there's really nothing to discuss. Discussion is a two way stream. But no, I don't understand what is being discussed. I have no clue whatsoever. But again, it's not only me who have problems it seems.

Do you think that anyone who practices aikido for a quarter of a century along with other arts for another 15 years is a moron who thinks that finger locks and finger leverage work in combat?

I have met such morons, yes.

But an outsider with some fighting experience would think it nonsense to condition yourself to sensitivity and balance whilst ignoring reality.

Ignoring reality?...
Softness, sensitivity, balance and reality as in testing through sparring, resisting opponents etc are not mutually exclusive. Of course you must test "internal" or "soft" skills through resistance and unrehearsed fighting.
William CC Chen in the clip have a lot of fighting experience and Sanda background. His two children are sanda champions and have won many different competitions. William Chen represents the softest philosophy in tai chi. Yet there is absolutely no glitch between sensitivity and reality.
Some people here seem to believe that you must choose between soft and hard, so they often interprete internal features as technically features. I on the other hand believe that in IMA, softness and sensitivity are real prerequisites for good fighting skills.

Yet, I don't understand how throwing yourself on command can teach you or your partner anything of that or anything about true internal skills.

Anyway I'll drop it, not because my tender feelings are hurt ;-) but because it's a waste of time.

Do as you like, no one is trying to glue your eyes to the board or waste your time.