Qinna partner practice from one of my classes

[origami_itto]

"What claims?"

'did you know that bjj cures cancer and that tai chi shot JFK?'

Like I said, interesting claims.

I agree that a BJJ guy should never teach Taijiquan, but they could show a Taijiquan player how to lay on an omoplata and how to escape a poorly applied one. A Taijiquan player should be able to learn more about Taijiquan from the experience.

Oh that part was a joke.

Yes it is wise for a taijiquan practitioner to test his art out in conjunction with other arts.
This is something that I have been telling taiji schools for over a decade.
Taiji should be exposed to Muay Thai as well. No one wanted to do it but me and every time I went to a tai chi "grand ultimate Fake Tai chi school" I was
asked to leave because of my mma background.

That is why I ended up being totally privately trained.

Then what are we arguing about? That's exactly what I said to begin with.

"when it comes to effective groundwork, a good BJJ guy is a technical expert that is very good to listen to."

[willie]

Then what are we arguing about? That's exactly what I said to begin with.

"when it comes to effective groundwork, a good BJJ guy is a technical expert that is very good to listen to."

The point is MaoDun.

One night it was brought to my attention that a warrior has both a spear and a shield.
that is as far as i'm going.

[origami_itto]

Then what are we arguing about? That's exactly what I said to begin with.

"when it comes to effective groundwork, a good BJJ guy is a technical expert that is very good to listen to."

The point is MaoDun.

One night it was brought to my attention that a warrior has both a spear and a shield.
that is as far as i'm going.

If you are studying Neijia without finding apparent contradictions, I'm not sure what you're studying.
I'm still very interested in your interpretation of "Internal".

[wushutiger]

"Internal" is a made up fantasy word that means very little when you get punched in the face, the same goes for "external." Just silly, arbitrary terms that have been abused for the last 100 years, making people think their shit is special.

100000%

[willie]

"Internal" is a made up fantasy.

100000%

it's a garbage statement made by someone who was exposed to garbage and indorsed by more garbage.
internal is only a classification that was made by masters who knew more then the people that were condescending to them.
which is why I had to point out the garbage in the first place.

[windwalker]

"Internal" is a made up fantasy.

100000%

it's a garbage statement made by someone who was exposed to garbage and indorsed by more garbage.
internal is only a classification that was made by masters who knew more then the people that were condescending to them.
which is why I had to point out the garbage in the first place.

+1

[origami_itto]

"Internal" is a made up fantasy.

100000%

it's a garbage statement made by someone who was exposed to garbage and indorsed by more garbage.
internal is only a classification that was made by masters who knew more then the people that were condescending to them.
which is why I had to point out the garbage in the first place.

Thank you for the warm welcome to the Rum Soaked Fist and your very educational training demonstration!

You seem to have a lot of emotional baggage attached to the word internal.

I am here to discuss neijia, the arts collectively referred to as internal in common usage. Whether the moniker is due to their basis on Taoist systems of thought and practice as opposed to arts rooted more firmly in Buddhism, (a system imported from India, hence external) , or whether it is due to any particular realistic difference in the training or the effects produced is immaterial. It's what they're called, just look at the top of this page.

I study yang style taijiquan. I was taught that the classics define taijiquan. Movement in keeping with the principles of the classics is taijiquan, everything else is not. I can't speak to differences in “external” systems because I don't study them. I use the term internal to mean “movement in accordance with the principles of taijiquan” because it is shorter.

I admit, I am not sufficiently advanced in my studies to judge the skills of anyone without putting my own hands on them, I would very much be interested in learning this technique.

What I can judge is what you have shown me. You seem very defensive and reactionary and unable to tolerate the slightest question or criticism. You agree with my point, yet act like this because I used a word you have attached emotional baggage to?

I do apologize if I have caused anyone any offense. I am here to learn and meet others who are also learning.

If anyone is in Austin, Texas I am always interested in learning in person. Text is such a poor medium.

There is no further benefit to me for participating in this conversation, thank you again for the enlightening demonstration.

[willie]

.

Thank you for the warm welcome to the Rum Soaked Fist and your very educational training demonstration!

You seem to have a lot of emotional baggage attached to the word internal.

There is no further benefit to me for participating in this conversation, thank you again for the enlightening demonstration.

Your welcome.

Ya, your right I do, it's gets a bit old with all the tai chi/ internal trash talking.

For your information "i don't care if it's internal or not" what ever wins...but I prefer the truth over arrogant bullshit.
Not meaning anyone in particular just sick of the drama.
This is what happens, People think that they have the real, everyone does, then they run into another level, then another.
So when they were comparing the usefulness of the art against one art or another, they were only talking shit, they just didn't know it.
because they never had the real art in the first place.
Welcome to RSF!

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I prefer the truth over arrogant bullshit.

So your Yang style, I used to be, I moved on to Chen, 1000 times better.

Hmm...


Also, for the chi-masters on this thread: It is you're, not your. Your posts will be easier to understand if you remember that. You're welcome.

[willie]

I prefer the truth over arrogant bullshit.

So your Yang style, I used to be, I moved on to Chen, 1000 times better.

Hmm...


Also, for the chi-masters on this thread: It is you're, not your. Your posts will be easier to understand if you remember that. You're welcome.

ya know I purposely edited that not to offend, but unfortunately it's true. except it's not 1000, it's 10,000

[Bao]

And No BJJ is not internal. Relaxed doesn't qualify.

+100

-100, principles of leverage, defeating stronger opponents when they are at their weakest, etc. Doesn't sound like "internal" at all. /sarcasm

"Internal" is from the name Neijiaquan, Neijia mening "Internal family". It's a lable on martial arts that use terminology and theory from neidan, daoyin and similar daoist tradition. BJJ does not share the same history as the neijia arts. It's not an internal art.

If you speak about "internal" as a certain set of specific qualities, this set is developed from following the tradition mentioned above. "Internal" knowledge according to neidan tradition is not a certain way of handling an opponent, it's a certain knowledge about yourself, I.e. self knowledge, and also a certain set of methods to reach this knowledge.

If you mean a general knowledge about "soft methods" or general skills on how to defeat stronger opponents, then no art is external or internal. Only individual practitioners could be labelled as "internal" or "external" practitioners, but not an art. There are tai chi teachers that are stiff as wood and know nothing else than forcing strength as well as there are "external" practitioners who are extremely relaxed and can generate tremendous force with seemingly no effort at all. Internal skill in this sense is an understanding about how to utilize certain principles. These principles can be discovered in many places and developed in many different ways. "Style" is not a good term to use for measuring individual knowledge about this kind of principles.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I prefer the truth over arrogant bullshit.

So your Yang style, I used to be, I moved on to Chen, 1000 times better.

Hmm...


Also, for the chi-masters on this thread: It is you're, not your. Your posts will be easier to understand if you remember that. You're welcome.

ya know I purposely edited that not to offend, but unfortunately it's true. except it's not 1000, it's 10,000

[charles]

I study yang style taijiquan. I was taught that the classics define taijiquan. Movement in keeping with the principles of the classics is taijiquan, everything else is not...

And, that's the catch.

Once upon a time, people who had skills attempted to write down some stuff about their skills. What they wrote is not a training manual, in the sense that it explicitly teaches one how to obtain those skills. Instead, much of what they wrote is vague and open to varying interpretation. And, many people have interpreted what was written in what they believe is the correct or intended way. This has given rise to many variations all claiming to be "right".

The catch is, are they all right - correct interpretations? Do all of the variations in interpretation lead to the actual skills that the authors originally were attempting to put into writing? How can one be sure that the interpretation one has learned is the right one and does lead to the author's skills?

The term "Taijiquan" now means so many different things to so many different people as to mean, effectively, nothing at all: it has become a catch-all, umbrella term for whatever practice one wants it to include.

[willie]

If you mean a general knowledge about "soft methods" or general skills on how to defeat stronger opponents, then no art is external or internal. Only individual practitioners could be labelled as "internal" or "external" practitioners, but not an art.

This is a question that I have been thinking about for years.
If a guy is internal and he takes up bjj, Does the bjj or boxing, or any other art automatically become internal?
The answer I believe is no.

This is an example of a 2 symbol form it is both external and internal as parts and theories contained in it do not qualify as internal.

[windwalker]

This is a question that I have been thinking about for years.
If a guy is internal and he takes up bjj, Does the bjj or boxing, or any other art automatically become internal?
The answer I believe is no.

I would tend to agree but would like to read your reasoning .

Regarding the internal/external all if not most of the people I've come into contact with are very clear,
the is no confusion or any of the other things that are often said about it.

All CMA just by virtue of it being "Chinese martial arts" are internal by nature. There is no other way to for them not to be
unless they are not trained in a traditional manor.

The distinction made between them has to due with what is being trained, primary focus
of the training.

國術有專尚浮氣外力者。以騰踔為能事。其功皆壯於外。而不實於內。其發育身體亦速。退消亦快。是靜中求動。內與外各不相謀也。太極拳。則完全動中求靜。以靜而動雖動猶靜。故演式時。不可求速。亦不可因靜而一味求慢。總要綿綿不斷。往來無間。神至意到。貫串如一。乃得太極之妙。
There are those in martial arts who emphasize superficial energy and external force, and who consider leaping to be skill. Their accomplishments are always external and never internal. They develop the body’s speed of advance and retreat. This is to seek movement within stillness.

The internal and external approaches are incompatible.

Taiji Boxing is entirely a matter of seeking stillness within movement. It moves within a context of stillness and seems to be in a state of stillness even while moving. Therefore when practicing the set, you must not seek to be fast, but you must also not think of stillness as meaning being stubbornly slow, rather as the movement being always continuous, no gap between going back and forth. Spirit and intention are to arrive together, coursing through in unison, and then you will have obtained the subtlety of Taiji.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... -rongqiao/