Top 10 Martial Arts

[windwalker]

back in the 70s we put on MA demos made up of people who practiced MA similar to what was shown in the clips in Luxembourg,
the difference between then and now is that the mission and type of combatant has changed. Its not really state sponsored "war" the young
troops are dealing with. They are being asked to do things that an "Army" is really not designed for..

A little different then what was shown in the clip I posted.

The point of the clip I did post was "mind set"

One might ask themselves if they really train with the idea of killing someone or being killed by them.
or whether this is even healthy for living in a civilian environment.

[Mr_Wood]

systema makes you invulnerable to everything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvR1fVibUNE

[willie]

Uploaded on Feb 11, 2011:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIqtWCqLIs8


Uploaded on Feb 11, 2011
This is a really good look at the US Army's Close Combat School and how it came into being and what they teach our soldiers could save their lives in the zone. This is MMA, Ultimate Fighting, Combat, and life saving skills all rolled into one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nPNI0hfGQ

That's our style, thanks for posting it!
Oh forgot to say that it was modernized, LOL!

[willie]

BJJ guys are actually nice to you, they don't have to let you tap...

And no ninjas show up to teach me how to disappear in smoke.

sorry aaaaah. no smoke, what camp did you say you train out of?

[willie]

willie are you wizz cool c the ninja guy ?

what was that mr wood, didn't quite hear ya?
what camp are you out of?

[willie]

back in the 70s we put on MA demos made up of people who practiced MA similar to what was shown in the clips in Luxembourg,
the difference between then and now is that the mission and type of combatant has changed. Its not really state sponsored "war" the young
troops are dealing with. They are being asked to do things that an "Army" is really not designed for..

A little different then what was shown in the clip I posted.

The point of the clip I did post was "mind set"

One might ask themselves if they really train with the idea of killing someone or being killed by them.
or whether this is even healthy for living in a civilian environment.

Sometimes you make a lot of sense.
it's not heathy for a civilian environment. that's why I do taiji, helps with the curb.
taiji is so soft, so nice, so flowing, so peaceful...

[Mr_Wood]

what was that mr wood, didn't quite hear ya?
what camp are you out of?

Just some dude who posted on here a while back about ninja stuff, forget about it.

[WVMark]

Legitimate martial artists know that there is no such thing as 'ninjutsu'.

There's an article over on koryu.com about this.

http://www.koryu.com/library/ninjutsu.html

It's worth reading for both sides of the debate. Is it koryu? No. Is it a martial art? Yes. Beyond that, the effectiveness of any martial art is with the individual, not the art as a whole.

Ninjutsu: is it koryu bujutsu?

by Diane Skoss

We've been accused of unreasonable prejudice against the popular "ninjutsu"-derived arts. Simply put, it is our opinion that modern-day ninjutsu and ninjutsu-derived arts are not koryu bujutsu. They are not based on a continuous transmission of technique and culture. Koryu.com covers koryu bujutsu. That doesn't mean that arts we don't cover are not worthwhile. We just don't cover them. Given that this is my site, I think that is my perogative.

Let me say this again, since it seems some people don't understand. Koryu.com does not cover ninjutsu! The art and those derived from it do not fall into our definition of the koryu bujutsu. Period. If you want to define the koryu differently, that's fine. Just don't ask us to change our definition, which is based on considerable first-hand experience and decades of research in Japanese source material. Please do not trouble yourself to write us to try and convince us to change our minds. It will not work.

We have made every effort to be as low-key as possible on the issue of "Is ninjutsu koryu?" We do not stress or advertise our position. That's because we sincerely believe that if your training is working for you then it is none of our business. However, if you come to us and ask whether we consider ninjutsu or the Bujinkan-derived arts to be koryu--well, we can only provide our honest opinion.

Please, please, please don't waste your time or ours. We really are familiar with the material relating to this issue; unless you happen to be a Japanese scholar who delves into ancient makimono, you won't turn up something we haven't seen and considered. Again, just because we don't share the same opinion doesn't mean that we are not all doing useful and good training. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu. I really appreciate your consideration!

[willie]

That's one hell of a statement alright.
Seems to make hundreds if not thousands or even tens of thousands of people with rank a bunch of liars.

I have no horse in the race, I prefer to maintain my own thoughts on the matter.
I like this video. it shows many relaxed and adaptable techniques.

[Finny]

No willie, not liars.

gullible, misled fantasists who grew up on american ninja and teenage mutant ninja turtles.

And yes, fair point is made by Mark, the effectiveness of any martial art is dependent entirely on the individual group and how they train.

'Ninjas' are renowned for training in stilted kata format where uke throws a clumsy 'lunge punch', then stands immobile while nage wanders around twisting fingers, wrists and arms. Watch any footage of Hatsumi and that's what you'll see.

in fact they are so notorious for this rubbish training method that many have, as willie's shihan has done - shifted to include bjj and mma as a means of adding efficient training methods to their lives.

Not that any of this is a big deal at all.. only to say that informed adult martial artists regard ninjers as uh.. rather pathetic.. as I said. Yes - the koryu.com folks coined the term 'ninjacompoops' to refer to the 'men in black'.

[Finny]

And I haven't watched it yet, but I would bet the house that the video Willie likes exemplifies what I mentioned above.

If you look at the thumbnail you can even see it - I bet that scene shows the student throw that horrible 'lunge punch', then stand still while Hatsumi wanders around poking and twisting things, pausing every few seconds to look into the crowd, as if saying "see, if he stands perfectly still, I can just walk around doing this! and THIS... and THIS!"

Not exactly unique or new, just sad.

[Mr_Wood]

I bet that scene shows the student throw that horrible 'lunge punch', then stand still while Hatsumi wanders around poking and twisting things, pausing every few seconds to look into the crowd, as if saying "see, if he stands perfectly still, I can just walk around doing this! and THIS... and THIS!"

but hatsumi does secret ninja silent kiai that makes people freeze, duh .

in fact they are so notorious for this rubbish training method that many have, as willie's shihan has done - shifted to include bjj and mma as a means of adding efficient training methods to their lives.

yup a guy i know did exactly this.

[Interloper]

My understanding of Hatsumi is that he does have legitimate training in a genuine koryu - a branch of Kukishin-ryu, one of the oldest still-existing koryu in Japan, and famous for its varied weapons. He also has a dan ranking in judo. So, not all of his training is suspect. But piling on the ninja stuff has pretty much overridden the dignity of his koryu and judo past.

[Finny]

Yes and no

Takamatsu, Hatsumi's teacher, was a legitimate Kukishin ryu shihan before he decided to invent his own ninja schools.. and Hatsumi did judo in school, like many japanese boys.

Hatsumi has never taught 'Kukishin ryu' - he originally taught what he called 'Togakure ryu ninjutsu', which is one of the styles Takamatsu invented. Then when it became clear that was a modern invention he changed the name to 'Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu' and claims BBT includes the 9 or so schools Takamatsu taught him, which include Kukishin ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu, which are legitimate koryu.

In the end, more people probably believe he is 'the last ninja' than actually know the facts.. which is what tends to come out online (ie legitimacy through popularity, rather than evidence based argument)

To each their own, ultimately.

[willie]

Yes and no

Takamatsu, Hatsumi's teacher, was a legitimate Kukishin ryu shihan before he decided to invent his own ninja schools.. and Hatsumi did judo in school, like many japanese boys.

Hatsumi has never taught 'Kukishin ryu' - he originally taught what he called 'Togakure ryu ninjutsu', which is one of the styles Takamatsu invented. Then when it became clear that was a modern invention he changed the name to 'Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu' and claims BBT includes the 9 or so schools Takamatsu taught him, which include Kukishin ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu, which are legitimate koryu.

In the end, more people probably believe he is 'the last ninja' than actually know the facts.. which is what tends to come out online (ie legitimacy through popularity, rather than evidence based argument)

To each their own, ultimately.

Finny, all those things don't matter, i'll tell you why.
Let's say that one of hatsumi's students killed someone with something he learned from ninjutsu, lets now say that he was caught.
In court the prosecutor tells the judge that he killed his client with ninjutsu, which he had been training for 35 years and had a
specific rank.
Then the defendants attorney stands up and tells the judge , well, but it wasn't real ninjutsu...
Problem is, the dead guy...
so, if as you say, that they are just gullible fools learning a fake art from a phony then why is the guy dead and what exatly have they been training
for the past 35 years?
I think the judge would come to the conclusion that, yes, the guy did kill the other guy with his training that he learned from ninjutsu.
There's a liability there.
yes of coarse my old Shihan upgraded as the years went by. He would have been stupid not too.