Apparently, Aikido is killing people... accidentally.

[jonathan.bluestein]

Ueshiba created a pacifistic martial art. False training paradigms kill people. Incredible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRPK6M_OPoU

[C.J.W.]

Shihonage can be dangerous because it throws the opponent backward while locking the elbow and shoulder joints. If the person on the receiving end is not used to taking this type of fall from that awkward position, they will most likely land on the back of their head, which may result in serious injury.

Back in my Aikido days, we were always told to let go of the arm when performing shihonage on a beginner. It allows the partner to break the fall more easily.

[windwalker]

Ueshiba created a pacifistic martial art. False training paradigms kill people. Incredible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRPK6M_OPoU

not an aikidoest but have interacted with those who are.

This is what the author wrote along with the clip posted

4. If you are training with the expectation of improving your chance of surviving a life-or-death encounter, you'll need to spend serious time in the dojo and in life in focused training. You will need to study not only aikido techniques, but also strategic thinking and internalize this mindset such that it becomes instinctive. You will need to avail yourself of every tool at your disposal to better your odds.

Examples of what I'm alluding to above are tactics such as the use of atemi and kiai -- combative strikes and shouts -- to overcome resistance and pave the way to a successful execution of techniques. In many aikido schools, atemi and kiai are seldom practiced and are regarded as unnecessary and violent. The reality is that the founder of aikido used these martial tools throughout his career as an essential part of his teaching and practice. To adopt a contrary viewpoint is merely to display a lack of knowledge of aikido's technical evolution and to depart from the founding principles of aikido.

5. If you're like most practitioners, you probably don't know much about the art and practice of Morihei Ueshiba, aikido's founder. Do you know that, perhaps surprisingly, there is an abundance of surviving technical documentation that allows us to reconstruct and reexamine his techniques and strategies in a meaningful way? Are they worth studying?

They most emphatically are! Morihei Ueshiba's approach to aikido has been largely neglected, or discarded as antiquated and thus irrelevant. This is yet another indication of the general ignorance of aikido's fascinating history. I can assure you that the surviving books and photos of Morihei's art contain a treasure trove of techniques and insights that, if studied carefully, will yield tremendous dividends in your personal training. Morihei Ueshiba is ever present and a constant reference source in the "Zone Theory of Aikido".

http://aikidojournal.com/zone-theory-of ... yShihonage

[WVMark]

Ueshiba created a pacifistic martial art.

No, that is completely wrong. Morihei Ueshiba was never a pacifist and never viewed his art as a pacifistic martial art.

http://www.guillaumeerard.com/aikido/articles/biography-of-kisshomaru-ueshiba-second-doshu-of-aikido

On the other hand, the work of the historians of the discipline has shown that Ueshiba Morihei enjoys, at some point, very cozy relationships with members of the Japanese ultranationalist circles and that it lasts at least until the middle of the war.[52][53] The nature of the exact ideology of Morihei during this period is debatable, but it seems increasingly clear that he is not a pacifist and never becomes one.[12] Kisshomaru insists on this repeatedly and adds that aikido is still a martial art and that therefore, it is not a pacifist system, even if the goal itself is to establish peace.[12][15][55] The maturation of aikido into something non-aggressive takes some time and it seems clear that the efforts and writings of Kisshomaru are the extension of the (late) change of heart of Morihei.

For those who want to do the research, there's a long list of references on the site. Mind you, it's just a beginning. There's a ton more out there. Where I disagree with the author of the site and my research upholds is that Kisshomaru made the changes away from his father's ideals, so that very last quoted sentence isn't true. Kisshomaru's efforts and writings are not an extension of the late change of heart of Morihei. Ueshiba was a Daito ryu man through and through until the day he died. While he overlayed some Omoto kyo religious terms onto Daito ryu aiki, it never changed the underlying training of body/mind that he received from Sokaku Takeda.

Mark

[Chris Li]

For those who want to do the research, there's a long list of references on the site. Mind you, it's just a beginning. There's a ton more out there. Where I disagree with the author of the site and my research upholds is that Kisshomaru made the changes away from his father's ideals, so that very last quoted sentence isn't true. Kisshomaru's efforts and writings are not an extension of the late change of heart of Morihei. Ueshiba was a Daito ryu man through and through until the day he died. While he overlayed some Omoto kyo religious terms onto Daito ryu aiki, it never changed the underlying training of body/mind that he received from Sokaku Takeda.

Mark

All true (Mark's related post on the divergence is available here) - it was essentially an attempt at marketing after the war led by Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Koichi Tohei in an effort to spread and popularize Aikido to the general population. For the positive - it opened up a kind of training that millions of people enjoy every day. There were some negative consequences as well, but maybe that's another discussion.

Anyway, like any physical activity, there is an injury rate in Aikido that includes some deaths. Most of the studies that I've seen place it above arts like Tae Kwon Do and Karate (mainly because of the falling), but way below arts like Judo (which tracked some 108 deaths during a 26 year period.

Best,

Chris

[shawnsegler]

In Gao style we're always warned about these "eyebrow wiping" techniques (shown here by Luo from 1:13 to 1:40)



as to the danger of them. The difference between them and the Shiho nage is the Aikido technique pulls the opp down by a locked out arm and in the bagua technique the opp is pulled back and down from their eyebrow and pushed down with a following strike to the face or throat or chest. In either technique the opps is having the back of their head brought down to the earth in such a way as their base has disappeared and their arms are not able to break their fall easily. This is by design obviously, but it is among the more "teh deadly" moves. I actually saw a guy die in real life from what I assume was drug deal gone bad over by the lower haight street projects that used to be their in the early 90's where the victim was cold cocked and out on his feet simulating the same goal as the throws- falling backwards with the head to concrete from a standing position to a prone one with the acceleration of a falling body and nothing interfering with its acceleration or impact. Guy straight up got punched in the jaw and went from there to the morgue. So yeah, it's something worth being careful with.

My 2c.

S.

[Bao]

Ooh, when I read the OP, I thought about, well yeah, accidents happen in all sports. Sad, but there will always be people with extremely bad luck.

Otoh, I think Shawn brought up the bigger picture nicely. People are trying to prove their skills in many different ways, seldom thinking about consequences or their own or the other person's safety. Anything can happen. How do we spread awareness about the risks and consequences of fighting and practicing fighting sports? If awareness can keep people from dying, why don't we try to do something about it? Isn't it about our own responsibility?

[C.J.W.]

In Gao style we're always warned about these "eyebrow wiping" techniques (shown here by Luo from 1:13 to 1:40)

Eyebrow mopping (ma-mei) is an effective (and dangerous) move that Cheng Bagua got from Shuaijiao. I met an 80 something direct student of GM Chang Tungsheng in Taipei back in 2004, and he casually demonstrated a few Shuaijiao techniques -- including ma-mei -- on me after knowing about my interest in the art. It left me with a nagging pain in the neck (literally) for weeks.

[Gus Mueller]

A lot of Aikido techniques, if not done on an educated (aikido trained) cooperative opponent who can take the fall or the roll or whatever, will result in at least a broken arm for the uke. Imagine an aikidoka in a real world situation saying to himself "Whoa, if he doesn't jump and roll I'm going to break his arm! Why isn't he jumping and rolling?"

[Bao]

Imagine an aikidoka in a real world situation saying to himself "Whoa, if he doesn't jump and roll I'm going to break his arm! Why isn't he jumping and rolling?"

I have always wondered why they want ukes to fly around when the techniques of the art is appearantly almost solely based on breaking joints and bones. Why complicate the practice to an acrobatic show if the purpose is just to break a wrist or an elbow? Would Chinese qinna and similar practice become better if the partner must throw himself around all of the time? I would bet not. It would take away focus from application and function of techniques. It's just ridiculous.

[RobP3]

Imagine an aikidoka in a real world situation saying to himself "Whoa, if he doesn't jump and roll I'm going to break his arm! Why isn't he jumping and rolling?"

I have always wondered why they want ukes to fly around when the techniques of the art is appearantly almost solely based on breaking joints and bones. Why complicate the practice to an acrobatic show if the purpose is just to break a wrist or an elbow? Would Chinese qinna and similar practice become better if the partner must throw himself around all of the time? I would bet not. It would take away focus from application and function of techniques. It's just ridiculous.

+1
Any instructor who damages students in order to show off the "flashier" elements of the art is an instructor not worth training with in my books. Especially when you have the culture of the student being basically a crash test dummy for you and the drill or demo is all purely for the benefit of the instructor's ego