Simply Beautiful Aikido

[origami_itto]

[Gus Mueller]

It's nonsense, it's fake, if you think it has anything to do with fighting, you're a rube. You might as well show a clip from the time the Green Hornet and Kato appeared on Batman.

Tori's moving his forearm does not put Uke's arm in jeopardy like he mimes. All Uke has to do if he's uncomfortable rather than pretending to be uncomfortable is to release his grip. Instead he dances over to a position where he can take a scripted fall. Anyone who's been in a fight on a playground as a child can see this is fake. Sorry.

[Interloper]

It's not fake, but you are right that it has nothing to do with fighting. Although, the mechanics used to create this effect can be applied to fighting, and you have to train in a very specific way to achieve this.

[windwalker]

It's not fake, but you are right that it has nothing to do with fighting. Although, the mechanics used to create this effect can be applied to fighting, and you have to train in a very specific way to achieve this.

considering some of the other threads.
How do you "know" it's not fake...

[Interloper]

It's not fake, but you are right that it has nothing to do with fighting. Although, the mechanics used to create this effect can be applied to fighting, and you have to train in a very specific way to achieve this.

considering some of the other threads.
How do you "know" it's not fake...

Well, for one thing, I know the mechanics of what he is doing, can explain them (and have already done so in another thread), and can do them myself. And I know I am not fake.

[windwalker]

It's not fake, but you are right that it has nothing to do with fighting. Although, the mechanics used to create this effect can be applied to fighting, and you have to train in a very specific way to achieve this.

considering some of the other threads.
How do you "know" it's not fake...

Well, for one thing, I know the mechanics of what he is doing, can explain them (and have already done so in another thread), and can do them myself. And I know I am not fake.

+1

In other words your experience tells you it's not fake.
Just as mine also allows me to agree with you...although we may use different
terminology for why, and what is happening.

[Bao]

Fake? How? I wouldn't lable it as "fake". That would be a bit offensive as it would diminish all years of there hard work. I see a guy throwing himself, somewhat assisted by another person. How could you fake it? In what way. CGI?

Well, for one thing, I know the mechanics of what he is doing, can explain them (and have already done so in another thread), and can do them myself. And I know I am not fake.

But let's be fair. When two aikidokas play together, it's and it always be, as we see here, a cooporative drill. Or at least it will become a semi-cooperative drill. You have learned to throw yourself pretty and know how to fall a certain way. If you are prepared to be thrown, jump around and in advanced, you have prepared yourself mentally and physically for that, yes you are going to be thrown. If it was not two aikidokas playing together here it would just not look as pretty, it would be different. It's just that simple. Fake? No. Cooperative? Yes. Learned response? Yes.

[Marko]

Actually, this is Daito ryu aikijujutsu, a precursor art to Aikido, not Aikido itself.

As for fake/real discussion, I don't want to waste my time on it, but I'll say this – in this instance, it is real. That said, it is also "conditioned" in a sense that uke/nage is a teaching model where nage learns to use aiki and develop soft control, so uke doesn't do anything to stop it, he is in fact allowing it to happen, but the forces enacted on uke are (or should be) existent.

Whether you go beyond this model into actual fight training, is up to you, and most JMA, unfortunately, do not. If you do, however, it will not look like this simply because the opponent will be allowed to change, counter, evade etc, but the same forces you are developing with the above will be there.

Yes, there is a big potential for deluding oneself and others in internal training, especially with beginners who have to learn to feel intent, connections and aiki - both in themselves and in their partner. It is the same way with pulling silk. If there is no tissue recruitment what so ever, you are deluding yourself and wasting your time. That said, if you are actually pulling silk, you are not "just standing", something is being trained.

This type of training is not to everyone's taste but it has its uses – I found the uke/nage model to be a quicker and more direct model to learn to apply internal skills than elementary push hands drills as its focus is narrower so it can be a good addition to learning and a fine bridge between form and push hands.

[GrahamB]

Worst handshake ever.

[emptycloud]

aiki amateurs...heres the biz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY4ISg9c33c

[Bao]

aiki amateurs...heres the biz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY4ISg9c33c

Poor guy. You know, that "uke" is just a little bit "slow". No need to ridicule people who are obviously retarded.

[littlepanda]

this is what you can do in real life if you have "internal poower"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq1oCMETv2k

[windwalker]

As for fake/real discussion, I don't want to waste my time on it, but I'll say this – in this instance, it is real. That said, it is also "conditioned" in a sense that uke/nage is a teaching model where nage learns to use aiki and develop soft control, so uke doesn't do anything to stop it, he is in fact allowing it to happen, but the forces enacted on uke are (or should be) existent.

Whether you go beyond this model into actual fight training, is up to you, and most JMA, unfortunately, do not. If you do, however, it will not look like this simply because the opponent will be allowed to change, counter, evade etc, but the same forces you are developing with the above will be there.

+1

The point of any demo in a teaching mode. My point in asking for "why" its not fake was only to illustrate that those with the same experiences can move on past that to a more productive understanding of whats going on through a common experience.

As it is on RSF it seems that some get into a recursive loop that in most instances signals the beginning of a death spiral for the thread.
No matter what is said or presented with out getting past this no further discussion can really take place.

the same forces you are developing with the above will be there

totally agree. with the caveat that for those who've developed what ever one calls the "forces" allows for a totally different type of interaction.

[Interloper]

aiki amateurs...heres the biz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY4ISg9c33c

Not the same as aiki; different kind of movement, but will work on an un-unified body. It may look "the same" outwardly, but the mechanisms that are driving the video in the OP are different than what drives Systema.

[Interloper]

Fake? How? I wouldn't lable it as "fake". That would be a bit offensive as it would diminish all years of there hard work. I see a guy throwing himself, somewhat assisted by another person. How could you fake it? In what way. CGI?

Well, for one thing, I know the mechanics of what he is doing, can explain them (and have already done so in another thread), and can do them myself. And I know I am not fake.

But let's be fair. When two aikidokas play together, it's and it always be, as we see here, a cooporative drill. Or at least it will become a semi-cooperative drill. You have learned to throw yourself pretty and know how to fall a certain way. If you are prepared to be thrown, jump around and in advanced, you have prepared yourself mentally and physically for that, yes you are going to be thrown. If it was not two aikidokas playing together here it would just not look as pretty, it would be different. It's just that simple. Fake? No. Cooperative? Yes. Learned response? Yes.

Not sure I'd agree with that, though I absolutely concur that there are plenty of demos where the uke/partner is conditioned to respond in a certain way. There are those demonstrators who don't really have much, and their students have drunk the kool-aid and have taught themselves to tank for their teacher.

That happens plenty. However, that is not what is happening in the OP video. Sometimes, there really is something going on, and the uke/partner is compelled to move -- either by mechanical force that moves him whether he wants to or not; by pain compliance, where he moves himself to escape pain; or, by a combination of the two. I am inclined to say that this latter option is what is happening in the OP video.

Conditioned response also can happen in arts where there is, in fact, skill and power, and, if the uke does not throw himself just ahead of the demonstrator, he will experience really terrible pain and concussion, and, possibly, injury. That's what ukemi is for, though in traditional combat arts, the throws and take-downs are designed to not allow an opponent to breakfall out of it. But, in a training setting, adjustments are made to permit escape from injury, and the breakfalls are the way students condition themselves to get the hell out of the path of destruction. This does not make the demo fake; it's just that the person on the receiving end knows what's coming and stays just enough ahead to keep himself safe.