Niall Keane wrote:
And, your are casting their shadow upon me, recall it is the likes of Windy who insists the hoppy hop "dance" is "high level" and that one needs to find "the real" to understand "it"... lets not blur the issue?
No one has made that claim.
First understand that there is a difference between a demonstration of a principle and training a skill, then understand there is a difference between training a skill and testing a skill in sparring or other games, then understand there is a difference between testing a skill and relying on your art when there are consequences for failure.
You seem to have collapsed all of these ideas into a straw man that insists hopping to regain your balance is how windwalker says you fight with taijiquan.
First, the hopping neutralization I mentioned previously is known as a "sparrow's hop" and it's just basic push-hands training in my lineage. It's in no way "high level" it's just a skill you pick up in push hands and the two-person sword form to learn to neutralize a big force by getting the hell out of the way.
During push hands, you might wind up hopping as in the video depending on what's going on, and it's always due to a mistake on your part.
For example, I tried to pull my partner down, but before I started the pull, I rose up, my partner followed me and added a little bit of lift at the end of my rising motion, so I was about a half inch or so higher than I wanted to be, my root was broken, and my leverage against him was worthless. When I tried to pull him down, I pushed myself up instead.
The result was that I didn't know where the ground was, my feet came up off of it, I shot my legs out to find the ground, which was closer than I thought, so I jumped up again before I managed to regain my balance and composure. I didn't understand why I was jumping until I went over it with my partner and we broke down the mechanics of it and I realized that he made me do it.
The application of these sorts of skills and how they appear from the outside is a function of the differential in level the players are expressing at the moment and the intent of the one in control. With someone who is completely untrained even a moderately trained tajiquan player should be able to completely dominate them. A trained opponent who knows how to guard their gates and maintain a dominant position requires a greater level of skill. It is not unusual to fall back on the stronger and easier wei jin techniques to contend with a skilled opponent, but it is less than optimal.
The "real" here is the application of the mental component of Lie, Chen, thunder, the arousing, aka split. The opponent's understanding of the world is at odds with the reality they are attempting to deal with. Much like when someone in a debate is arguing against a point you are not making.
I don't know what the Wudang lineage contains regarding study of jin or the energies of the 13 postures (8 gates/five steps), some of what you have been saying is at direct variance with my understanding of the Yang family teachings and methods. Timing fa jin and which jin to fa are both very precise principles and considerations. Again I would hesitate to get defensive about "the real" and "levels" and would much rather hear more about your training methods and working concepts to see where these traditions converge and differ and what we could learn from each other to improve our art.
Windwalker's input regarding intention is in line with all of the teachings from the Yang lineage. If you don't understand it, you don't understand it, and that's fine, you have the reward you have sought in your study. Just don't try to tell people who do understand it that it doesn't exist.
Many of the subtler nei jin are very difficult to perceive and train in high-intensity situations, in my opinion, too much intensity too often can impede the development of nei jin skills. As mentioned previously, you miss the trees for the forest. Wei jin is so obvious and exciting that the five tones deafen the ear, so to speak.
As for boxercise boys, again I will say that after I regain my base conditioning in roughly a year's time, I would be honored to put my methods to the test with you or anyone else on this board in the spirit of learning and exploration.
