Choy Li Fut Chin Na

[origami_itto]

This is a three hour long seminar. I confirmed it was uploaded and shared by the content owner/creator.

[Ba-men]

OMG... he started off with the proverbial BS hand grab... face plant!!!!!

There might be something of value on this..... but i stopped whatching from the jump... and would have gotten up and demanded my money back if there in person.

should explain why I guess..

I very skeptical of hand grabs during a fight.

First they are ALL or Nothing" techniques...

About the only way to seize a hand is to stun your opponent. You’re not trapping the hand, fist are too fast retracting/coming in. (take in mind also I come from the premise all but the simpliest traps are bogus. you can't trap a boxer or someone who uses boxer type guards w/practical footwork/body maneuvering. ya can't. Your left to shielding and parrying/blocking... but this is for another thread) Preemptively reaching out is seen by bystanders as making the first attack (an assault in US law) and if you know what you’re doing you can seriously jack someone up (dislocate elbows/shoulders tear muscles groups ligament etc...) the consequences can be dangerous in the long run. i.e. law suits, criminal charges. IMO about the only way to feasibly train hand grabs (chin-na off the hand/wrist) is to train then off various forms of attacks that one would normally iniate after the first blow was thrown... techniques where if you don’t get them you can still defend against yourself… Chasing chin na like these can get you seriously hurt.

So with all this in mind (that’s why I’m super skeptical)

[Greg J]

Hi Ba Men,

I with everything you say about trying to grab a hand in a fight. But Sifu Willcott wasn't trying to grab the hand, he was working off someone grabbing him.

You might want to fast forward past hour one. Sifu Willcott gets into some really neat material (takedowns versus a punch that flow into various locks/ breaks) that might resonate with you more than the material you checked out.

Thanks for sharing the video, and thanks for checking with the owner to make sure it wasn't pirated, Origami!

Best,
Greg

[GrahamB]

Hmmm.. I don't remember the guard, omoplata or armbar from your back being part of the traditional CLF curriculum.



Teaching BJJ and calling it CLF is one thing (credit where it is due please), but is he qualified to teach BJJ? His description of how to do a basic triangle at 2.26 was pretty flakey. To be honest, it just looks like he's not very familiar with it, or has never done it under pressure before.

[Wanderingdragon]

Hmmmm, probably not, since he's demoing how to fight someone who wants to lie down with you, with CLF, also probably unknown to someone who never completely learned how to use the CLF system, a common flaw with those who seem to leave CMA because they think it's not complete and needs to be augmented with other stuff.
As for chin na in general, it never works when you reach for it, muscle strength often is enough to stymie it, joint locks and throws are technique o of opportunity, to be exploited when they arise during the course of a fight, again you must be versed in your art to recognize the opportunty for such ingrained technique.

[windwalker]

a common flaw with those who seem to leave CMA because they think it's not complete and needs to be augmented with other stuff.

+1

Always find it odd that on an IMA site its never asked about what happens when "insert" style meets someone who is quite competent with what ever IMA style they practice. Even more confusing since many of the people here profess to be exponents of said styles.

One would think that they would be showing why something does work instead of why it does not.

[Gus Mueller]

Hmmm.. I don't remember the guard, omoplata or armbar from your back being part of the traditional CLF curriculum.

...

He's got two "about me" pages on his website, "master" and "grandmaster". On the "master" page he claims palm-reading as one of his skills.
http://www.hungsing.co.uk/master

[origami_itto]

As for chin na in general, it never works when you reach for it, muscle strength often is enough to stymie it, joint locks and throws are technique o of opportunity, to be exploited when they arise during the course of a fight, again you must be versed in your art to recognize the opportunty for such ingrained technique.

That's usually how I think of chin na training in general, it's fully compliant by necessity, then in combat you find yourself in the setup and it just flows into the lock naturally without thinking about it.

To that end, I try to absorb all of the various perspectives on them, even if they're "unrealistic" or familiar or redundant. Even the hand grab stuff works when it's an appropriate situation for the technique.

Like he is saying in the video "this isn't necessarily a realistic setup, it's intended to demonstrate the concept and anatomy involved"

Thanks for sharing the video, and thanks for checking with the owner to make sure it wasn't pirated, Origami!

He seems like a hell of a guy, polite, knowledgeable, and generous to boot.