Dan Harden and Roy Goldberg

[mrlizard123]

It's worth noting that Dan never does, or teaches, what you are seeing in these videos.

That was a seminar looking at Daito Ryu; not what Dan does in his regular seminars.

In the five years I've known him I've never seen him doing these techniques in private or public.

A couple of times at the seminar he actually brought up that he hasn't done them in almost twenty years.

[littlepanda]

trying to understand why so many grapplers and mma guys have that wtf look in the face when rolling with Dan and struggle for survive instead of just submit him.Are all of us stupid? Probably

Are those tha same guys that tap out because "the flesh and skin of the arm are in terrible pain the whole time."?
theres basically no health risk in going into a grappling match - Instead of posting those lenghty explanations Dan would have just rolled with 1 grappler and film it, you know as virtually every poerson doing grappling does all the time.

+1

i wonder why they(IP/aiki experts) don't do it!!

[origami_itto]

So that's how grapplers teach at Seminars? They just invite random people up and make them tap out and say "there ya go, now practice"?

Because what I remember from BJJ class was the instructor would have a compliant student who would give them the submission they were trying to teach us and he would explain the mechanics involved, then we would drill them with token resistance, not real counters, but just enough to make you feel like you were working for it.

Then in free time we would go non-compliant.

I COULD BE WRONG, and the BJJ seminars that you folks would like to pay for MIGHT JUST BE some dude in a Gi saying "Come at me bro" and filming it so the Keyboard warriors would know they were legit.

[Dmitri]

But, you see, this is very different. Dan must obviously prove himself to semi-anonymous internet posters he never met. It's not about the art, the learning, the principles and ideas being shared. It's all about whether Dan can roll with some guy on video. 'Cause that'll surely end all arguments and satisfy everyone's appetites. It just makes perfect sense!

[C.J.W.]

I enjoyed the clips, and it was nice to finally be able to see Dan on film after hearing so much about him over the years.

One thing I've noticed is that Daito Ryu seems to emphasize the ability to use one's internally-connected body to control the opponent's frame as soon as contact is made.
It'd be interesting to see what would happen if a DR guy were up against IMAists from other styles with equally developed structure and no "slack" in their frames to easily manipulate.

[littlepanda]

But, you see, this is very different. Dan must obviously prove himself to semi-anonymous internet posters he never met.

If you(plural) make claims of using IP to overcome a mma or a bjj guy -on a public forum- then semi-random internet posters will ask you for evidence. Whether you want to prove it or not it is entirely up to you. But people will draw their own conclusion.

.

[junglist]

Seriously?

This is why Dan didn't want to post videos. It's because idiots would come out of the woodwork and say this and that. Please don't ruin it for everyone you trolls.

[Patrick]

Whatever one is seeing here, what is evident is when reading at the 6H: surley Sigman likes Sigman.

[windwalker]

Seriously?

This is why Dan didn't want to post videos. It's because idiots would come out of the woodwork and say this and that. Please don't ruin it for everyone you trolls.

Kinda a strange comment considering he has no problems addressing other's clips showing similar things.
Now when or if he does comment there will always be something to compare it to.

Ruin what, what is is that is shown here not shown on other clips similar in nature in which people ask about or question?

Idiots? is it only on this clip, how about on other clips where the same questions are asked?

[junglist]

1. Dan never needed to post videos. He said that people would take it wrongly. He was right.
2. Other clips as well. I don't see anything substantive with what people are saying here. There is no context for it. There is a clip where Dan does an arm bar showing a principle and people come in and say "welll durrr maybe you should durrrr get a grappler to roll with you?". Like seriously, wtf?
3. Ruin it meaning Dan might just not allow,people to film in anymore because of the idiocy of some people. I enjoy videos of internal martial artists doing their thing and we finally get to see the notorious Dan Harden showcase some of his skill. People say you can't get skill from videos. Yes you can't get skill by watching video alone but if you know what you're looking for, they are tremendously helpful in helping you amp your skills up.

[origami_itto]

But, you see, this is very different. Dan must obviously prove himself to semi-anonymous internet posters he never met.

If you(plural) make claims of using IP to overcome a mma or a bjj guy -on a public forum- then semi-random internet posters will ask you for evidence. Whether you want to prove it or not it is entirely up to you. But people will draw their own conclusion.

.

Nobody is making any "claims". Dan is being extremely gracious and generous by giving us a free glimpse into his methods with some excellent explanation. He didn't have to allow video. He didn't have to allow it on YouTube. He was teaching at a sold out $300 workshop. It's a gift, and in their ignorance, the usual suspects are shitting on it, as usual.

I haven't crossed hands with him, but I respect the hell out of the people on this board who have and if they say he is legit, along with being able to see the skills as they're being displayed, is all the proof I need.

If you need more proof, why rely on video? Meet the man and check him out yourself. A single touch is worth a lifetime of YouTube videos.

[origami_itto]

I enjoyed the clips, and it was nice to finally be able to see Dan on film after hearing so much about him over the years.

One thing I've noticed is that Daito Ryu seems to emphasize the ability to use one's internally-connected body to control the opponent's frame as soon as contact is made.
It'd be interesting to see what would happen if a DR guy were up against IMAists from other styles with equally developed structure and no "slack" in their frames to easily manipulate.

Adam Mizner says in one of his videos that Taijiquan is not designed to fight Taijiquan, it's designed to beat everything else. So when you use Taijiquan against Taijiquan it simply becomes a matter of level. I would say the same thing applies to any use of Nei Jin. Whoever has the more developed internal skills would win.

[origami_itto]

Whatever one is seeing here, what is evident is when reading at the 6H: surley Sigman likes Sigman.

He surely has some ideas about things

[windwalker]

1. Dan never needed to post videos. He said that people would take it wrongly. He was right.

True but he has commented on others clips doing the same type of demo. Did "he" take it wrongly?

2. Other clips as well. I don't see anything substantive with what people are saying here. There is no context for it. There is a clip where Dan does an arm bar showing a principle and people come in and say "welll durrr maybe you should durrrr get a grappler to roll with you?". Like seriously, wtf?

The same comments made about most clips showing the same things, not really an issue for me, others may feel different.

3. Ruin it meaning Dan might just not allow,people to film in anymore because of the idiocy of some people. I enjoy videos of internal martial artists doing their thing and we finally get to see the notorious Dan Harden showcase some of his skill. People say you can't get skill from videos. Yes you can't get skill by watching video alone but if you know what you're looking for, they are tremendously helpful in helping you amp your skills up

He probably always had people flim him just not allow it to be posted.
I would disagree about "getting skill from a video"
IMO this is only true if one is close to the skill itself otherwise, most will tend to question it, which they do.

The issue IMO is whether this should be treated any differently because some know him, he post here, or "what ever"

Had it been posted and no one knew of him, or his work how would it be viewed?
The point is that now when comments are made from him or anyone else there is no mystery.
One can refer back to the clips posted and compare

It's a good clip, showing some interesting concepts / applications with a clear narration.
Interesting to me in that it was stressed "that its not what one sees but what one feels"

Which when used as argument many disregard this when it comes to other IMA artist.
This has always been the case with the exception that those close to the skill or those that have experienced
it as some here, can support it as they'er doing now the teacher in question.

I view the clip as any other clip presented by someone with skill. Others may have a closer
relationship with the actors and so may feel a little differently.

[junglist]

1. Dan never needed to post videos. He said that people would take it wrongly. He was right.

True but he has commented on others clips doing the same type of demo. Did "he" take it wrongly?

2. Other clips as well. I don't see anything substantive with what people are saying here. There is no context for it. There is a clip where Dan does an arm bar showing a principle and people come in and say "welll durrr maybe you should durrrr get a grappler to roll with you?". Like seriously, wtf?

The same comments made about most clips showing the same things, not really an issue for me, others may feel different.

3. Ruin it meaning Dan might just not allow,people to film in anymore because of the idiocy of some people. I enjoy videos of internal martial artists doing their thing and we finally get to see the notorious Dan Harden showcase some of his skill. People say you can't get skill from videos. Yes you can't get skill by watching video alone but if you know what you're looking for, they are tremendously helpful in helping you amp your skills up

He probably always had people flim him just not allow it to be posted.
I would disagree about "getting skill from a video"
IMO this is only true if one is close to the skill itself otherwise, most will tend to question it, which they do.

The issue IMO is whether this should be treated any differently because some know him, he post here, or "what ever"

Had it been posted and no one knew of him, or his work how would it be viewed?
The point is that now when comments are made from him or anyone else there is no mystery.
One can refer back to the clips posted and compare

It's a good clip, showing some interesting concepts / applications with a clear narration.
Interesting to me in that it was stressed "that its not what one sees but what one feels"

Which when used as argument many disregard this when it comes to other IMA artist.
This has always been the case with the exception that those close to the skill or those that have experienced
it as some here, can support it as they'er doing now the teacher in question.

I view the clip as any other clip presented by someone with skill. Others may have a closer
relationship with the actors and so may feel a little differently.

Most likely not. The man has met some heavy hitters in the IMA circles and they vetted him and most of the people I know have vetted him and say he has serious skills. I trust the man's opinion to a certain degree. The rest of the people here are a bunch of names on the internet whose opinions I could care less for.