Chen Village: Chen Taijiquan Training

[wayne hansen]

Only watched the first 3 min then I got bored
Seems like pretty standard Chen style to me
Young kids in school not that interested in what they are doing but I'm sure some good Chen practitioners will arise

[yeniseri]

Running a large commercial martial arts school is just like any other type of business, which is all about appealing to the customer base in order to turn a profit and keep it running. That's why I think some of the training seen in the video has more to do with "what the students approve" rather than "what Chen Bing approves."

Excellent point!
This approach is the best since kids love to do active stuff, the more serious students will gravitate to, and be chosen to represent the village based on their "all round skill".

Just have fun, drink from the viallage well and the rest will take care of itself! No harm, no chickens.

[.Q.]

This looks like good foundational training before learning more refined stuff, at least to me. Seems they substituted the old long fist curriculum for young kids w/ this and I think this would develop body skills quicker. It would also be more fun and keep kids engaged.

[willie]

Doesn't seem much different from any other type of training. why call it taiji?

Because it is taiji. The common mis-interpretation of taiji is that "a person must be in touch with the feminine side" in order
to join with the "masculine side" which then creates harmony and a third outcome. This is not a complete understanding, it is dun
of maodun.
A chen stylist is both yin and yang all the time. he doesn't need to rely on max separation. he is not half a man.

[windwalker]

Doesn't seem much different from any other type of training. why call it taiji?

Because it is taiji. The common mis-interpretation of taiji is that "a person must be in touch with the feminine side" in order
to join with the "masculine side" which then creates harmony and a third outcome. This is not a complete understanding, it is dun
of maodun.
A chen stylist is both yin and yang all the time. he doesn't need to rely on max separation. he is not half a man.

Well I would say "no" what was shown had many things to my eye wrong on many levels.

In this sense to me it was not much different then any other CMA...
Of course you being a chen stylist and others here also Chen stylist I would deffer to you and them in the opinion of the clip.

I think you may be misunderstanding some of my view points concerning "yin-yang"
and what is being separated or not. its ok
must be a monday

[charles]

what was shown had many things to my eye wrong on many levels.

Feel free to discuss them. People here are willing to discuss them with you. Some of us, even objectively.

[willie]

Doesn't seem much different from any other type of training. why call it taiji?

Because it is taiji. The common mis-interpretation of taiji is that "a person must be in touch with the feminine side" in order
to join with the "masculine side" which then creates harmony and a third outcome. This is not a complete understanding, it is dun
of maodun.
A chen stylist is both yin and yang all the time. he doesn't need to rely on max separation. he is not half a man.

Well I would say "no" what was shown had many things to my eye wrong on many levels.

In this sense to me it was not much different then any other CMA...
Of course you being a chen stylist and others here also Chen stylist I would deffer to you and them in the opinion of the clip.

I think you may be misunderstanding some of my view points concerning "yin-yang"
and what is being separated or not. its ok
must be a monday

I didn't really see anything that i thought was wrong. They train all day, everyday. Of-coarse they are going to be doing
a lot of basic stuff. The training being shown is no were near the training that i pesonally do. but like i said it's all day, everyday.

No you are wrong it is very, very different then any other CMA. The dantian is the engine. the engine goes threw phases of yin and yang
creating power. the power is expressed anywhere.

Also you forget that i have done Yang style and some Wudang tai chi.
In Yang style that i learned. it was the whole situation which was yin and yang. The BIGGER the picture was, the more power you had.
it is a great methode, but it wasn't until i got deeper into Chen before I understood Yin and yang in one man, all the time.

[windwalker]

I did mention that from my perspective I felt the movement was wrong for taiji, and defer to Chen stylist as to whether it was or not according
to their views.

If you feel it was correct then I defer to your point, as to the yin-yang we have different viewpoints on this.

What I work and focus on according to those I've worked with is very different then most other taiji stylist they've met.
Most of them have had many yrs practicing taiji with other people.

[ThreeFourFive]

Just the usual execution of choreography. Not much more, really.

What is shown certainly will not carry one far at all.

[willie]

I did mention that from my perspective I felt the movement was wrong for taiji, and defer to Chen stylist as to whether it was or not according
to their views.

If you feel it was correct then I defer to your point, as to the yin-yang we have different viewpoints on this.

What I work and focus on according to those I've worked with is very different then most other taiji stylist they've met.
Most of them have had many yrs practicing taiji with other people.

O.K. then tell me what you think is wrong. Time stamp it so we can review.
also please tell me your view on yin and yang if your so sure that it's not a somewhat similar meaning.

One more thing, A question. When was the last time you did a push-up?
I ask this because, as you can clearly see, a large portion of the training is meant just to keep a good, healthy, strong body.
Many tai chi people think and teach "not saying you" that weight lifting, body building and strength related routines are bad and
hang onto the using no force as a vehicle to solidify their point of view. This is not true.
There is even very well known instructors bragging about the lack of muscle that they have, Or that the tai chi dissolved the muscle tissue.
They think it's a good thing?
In-fact muscle wasting is a very bad thing.
Thanks

[windwalker]

Wow,,,so many questions, really not interested, but lets see

If you feel your correct then you are...In the clip I see broken movement
leaning, isolated movement ect….all things that many CMA styles use and practice with.

Which for me would tend to violate many of the things I work on and practice not to do..
I see no point in learning one way and then unlearning it to learn another way. If you and the others
feel that what was shown in the clips accordes with taiji movement dynamics then go for it...I dont.

If you and the others feel some how that what was shown is harder to do, IME it's not...It might be fair to say that
because its not required to meet the same criteria as what I use for my practice,
for most what is shown in the clips might be a bit easier and more fun to do.

As it is, for most people they are unable to
meet the requirements I use with out unlearning other practices they might have had. takes awhile.

A push up,,,mmmm can you do this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhtH9_yrBiQ

When was the last time I did a push up,,,wow I was gong to ask with one or two hands...
used to do a lot of them one handed...among other ways. I don't find I need to do them anymore
stopped long ago. Is that a problem?


when was the last time you did wall squatting .

yin-yang....really I don't see much point in discussion it
on line...

[windwalker]

Many tai chi people think and teach "not saying you" that weight lifting, body building and strength related routines are bad and
hang onto the using no force as a vehicle to solidify their point of view. This is not true.

I really dont pay much attention to others practices. It's what they do...like many things everyone has their way.
I would say that the things you've mentioned are not conductive "for my practice " to understanding the things I work on and with.

They may be for you and others, if it works go for it....

ah the no force....have this discussion all the time.
people feel no force when the "middle point of a circle or sphere, equidistant from every point on the circumference or surface."

If one has this or can do it. It is interesting the reactions it can cause.....

I found this on another site...it accords with my thoughts

Suddenly I got a flashback to the exercise of placing a raw egg on its end to stand vertically. This is done with microadjustments, too much force and it can't find balance. Once it's standing, there's no force other than gravity acting on it. It is very uncomfortable in this position, very unstable. If you are doing taiji like that, your no-force position is like that -- nothing but gravity acting on your body, nothing at all. It is very uncomfortable and very unstable for a two-legged creature, more so for an egg, but this is the crux of the matter.

So... in taiji, you can't stand like that once you've found this unstable uncomfortable spot of no force, you have to keep responding to all incoming forces by changing your no-force position to a different no-force position, so you stand a thousand, a million eggs on end in the process, yet never use any crazy glue to get them to stand! Never any "li." Feeling the microadjustments in the fingers with the egg exercise --

this has to be extended to your whole body, and there's no "egg," or is there? The Big Taiji Guy likes to say, "there's no arms in taiji." If there's no arms, then you're closer to that "egg" ideal, you don't use your arms for balance, an "egg" doesn't have them, you have to find the balance inside the egg, inside the body... and it's fleeting at any given moment, it's not crazy-glued anywhere.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/13698-c ... -it/page-1

Never any "li." Feeling the microadjustments in the fingers with the egg exercise -

how does what is written accord with your thoughts...for me it makes perfect sense although I might explain it differently

[windwalker]

what was shown had many things to my eye wrong on many levels.

Feel free to discuss them. People here are willing to discuss them with you. Some of us, even objectively.

haha,,thanks made me laugh

ok lets try it...in this clip

do you feel they understand what being straight means,
and show / use / this understanding in their movements.

[windwalker]

Chen Zhenglei and Chen Xiaowang are known to "terrorize" the students with demands of high definition, and one of the fairly simple and basic moves I've just described is something they might have a student repeat sl-l-l-ow-w-wly over a full minute, two minutes! -- and then again, because it's still wrong, the muscle memory didn't sink in -- and again, two minutes of rotating the heel, two minutes of turning the palm...

Not every teacher will teach high definition because, for one thing, it requires absolute mastery from the teacher, and for another, many Western students get very frustrated by this drill. They thought they knew the form perfectly and have been doing it correctly for years! Turns out they didn't know the half of it, and then turns out their muscle memory of doing it wrong is very stubborn and won't go away and won't make room for the new and improved memory of the correct way to do it. And a teacher you can't satisfy turning your palm for two minutes, again and again, becomes a torturer, an ego buster, and people's defenses kick in and they get upset and take it personally and what not.

So, many teachers avoid this kind of drills because they don't want to alienate the students who refuse to be humbled.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/13698-c ... it/page-13

This is what I had alluded to. I agree very much with the posters thoughts...

[willie]

Many tai chi people think and teach "not saying you" that weight lifting, body building and strength related routines are bad and
hang onto the using no force as a vehicle to solidify their point of view. This is not true.

I really dont pay much attention to others practices. It's what they do...like many things everyone has their way.
I would say that the things you've mentioned are not conductive "for my practice " to understanding the things I work on and with.

They may be for you and others, if it works go for it....

ah the no force....have this discussion all the time.
people feel no force when the "middle point of a circle or sphere, equidistant from every point on the circumference or surface."

If one has this or can do it. It is interesting the reactions it can cause.....

I found this on another site...it accords with my thoughts

Suddenly I got a flashback to the exercise of placing a raw egg on its end to stand vertically. This is done with microadjustments, too much force and it can't find balance. Once it's standing, there's no force other than gravity acting on it. It is very uncomfortable in this position, very unstable. If you are doing taiji like that, your no-force position is like that -- nothing but gravity acting on your body, nothing at all. It is very uncomfortable and very unstable for a two-legged creature, more so for an egg, but this is the crux of the matter.

So... in taiji, you can't stand like that once you've found this unstable uncomfortable spot of no force, you have to keep responding to all incoming forces by changing your no-force position to a different no-force position, so you stand a thousand, a million eggs on end in the process, yet never use any crazy glue to get them to stand! Never any "li." Feeling the microadjustments in the fingers with the egg exercise --

this has to be extended to your whole body, and there's no "egg," or is there? The Big Taiji Guy likes to say, "there's no arms in taiji." If there's no arms, then you're closer to that "egg" ideal, you don't use your arms for balance, an "egg" doesn't have them, you have to find the balance inside the egg, inside the body... and it's fleeting at any given moment, it's not crazy-glued anywhere.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/13698-c ... -it/page-1

Never any "li." Feeling the microadjustments in the fingers with the egg exercise -

how does what is written accord with your thoughts...for me it makes perfect sense although I might explain it differently

i personally don't like it, but there was a time long ago that i would have.