Song Style Xingyi Quan

[bviru_xin]

[nicklinjm]

Zhao Chuanhui laoshi, always enlightening!

[Fubo]

Is the "shaking" a result of the momentum and structure suddenly stopping, while staying relaxed? I see some people training slower and smooth, and some others fast with sudden stops in momentum without the "shaking" or "rebounding" force at the end. What's the benefit to the training that results in this "shaking" effect? I'm guessing the "shaking" is not specifically the goal, but a symptom of the training method?

[lineofintent]

The vibration is a result of many details of structure, motion, internal power and dantian work, and change between looseness and tightness and vv.

The point is for the target to feel the penetrating vibration, not to try and 'shake'.

[Fubo]

The vibration is a result of many details of structure, motion, internal power and dantian work, and change between looseness and tightness and vv.

The point is for the target to feel the penetrating vibration, not to try and 'shake'.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm just curious as to how the person receiving this vibrating strike would feel, vs how it would differ from receiving a penetrating strike from a guy applying internal mechanics but without the "vibration"? I've been hit by people with really good internal martial art skills, but not this vibration, so I'm curious.

[nicklinjm]

As Alex said, the 'vibration' is a side effect, not the goal. Cannot speak for other styles, but Song style emphasises extreme relaxation in the arms (obviously more generally in the body as well), only tensing at the moment of impact, also the fists should feel like a ball on the end of a chain. The end result should be producing very heavy, short sharp fajin which can either send the other person flying or produce a shocking effect on the area hit. I can do this to a certain extent, sure Alex can too.

[wayne hansen]

I agree with the relaxation
Ball on the chain is how I always describe it
But I l
Think the chain is not needed
The only thing I differ on is the point of impact
At that point I relax even more

[Fubo]

Thanks for the explanations.

[middleway]

...Song style emphasises extreme relaxation in the arms (obviously more generally in the body as well), only tensing at the moment of impact, also the fists should feel like a ball on the end of a chain.

This suggests that up until the point of contact the limb is 'empty' for want of a better word? if the strike were intercepted before the moment of contact/transfer for instance would the power still be evident as it would in other ways of producing IP?

thanks

[nicklinjm]

Not completely empty. Would say that the structural power is still there but not as emphasised as in, say, Hebei xingyi. Just my .02, hope other Song style people on the board will chip in.

[lineofintent]

Hi Chris

in this art it is as if the arms are two snakes, coiling and twisting - I guess you have held a snake before, if so you know that feeling of constant undulation, that the power can manifest at any point along the snake's body and that wherever you touch it there is power.

In fact not only the arms but the entire body has this kind of force.

[wayne hansen]

Nice theory but as someone who has handled a few snakes in his life
The last one a week ago
He seems a bit rigid for any snake analogy
He looks like he is working on a hard rod like energy

[middleway]

Thanks Alex and Nick.

I have indeed held a snake several times. The analogy brakes down for me somewhat as the articulation of a snake vs an arm are extremely different, so i am sure i would have to feel the idea presented.

that the power can manifest at any point along the snake's body and that wherever you touch it there is power.

This is interesting, so the power is defuse until a touch occurs in the Song Method?

All of the videos i have seen of Song style including the ones on this page, have a distinct and pronounced coil and release to them. Although it is clear how this would be very useful for striking, I wonder if there would be some susceptibility to the type of 'constrictor' (continue the snake analogy) skills found in high level grappling, where during the 'store' or coil phase the gaps are filled and never released.

Song looks like a fascinating way to use the body.

Thank you both for the information.

[lineofintent]

It is simply an image - 'as if the body is a coiling snake' - just as many arts use images or analogy as teaching tools.

What the onlooker sees here is mainly coil and release, but there are many other force-pairs going on including spiralling - as we all know when you touch someone with internal skills there is often a lot more going on then it seemed at first glance.

[middleway]

What the onlooker sees here is mainly coil and release, but there are many other force-pairs going on including spiralling - as we all know when you touch someone with internal skills there is often a lot more going on then it seemed at first glance.

Absolutely. Thanks for the time Alex