the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

A controversial one filmed by woma.tv

Why is it "controversial"? It's wonderful!

Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past.

Thanks for sharing. That was a fabulous poem, and I think listening to it before practice would be a great addition. Simply marvelous!

Gave me some things to think about during practice. Thanks Steve.

Steve Rowe wrote:Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past.

What makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's opinion. I would think it's what a person does with it and can demonstrate rather than how it's done or explained.

In what are called the taiji classics it's pretty well documented as to the qualities and usage.

You have put forth a theory about what you feel it is, how do you test your theory to make sure what you say you are doing is in fact what you're doing.

windwalker wrote:

Steve Rowe wrote:Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past.

What makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's opinion. I would think it's what a person does with it and can demonstrate rather than how it's done or explained.

In what are called the taiji classics it's pretty well documented as to the qualities and usage.

You have put forth a theory about what you feel it is, how do you test your theory to make sure what you say you are doing is in fact what you're doing.

From the lin kong jin master...What a dick.

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:From the lin kong jin master...What a dick.

Now, now. He's raised a very valid point. How about addressing his point rather than just going for the ad hominem?

How is it that everyone has a definition of "peng", many of which differ from one another, but few have the skills for which the art is famous? Something doesn't add up.

I appreciate Steve's poem, and his efforts to try to describe what is peng. However, I think he has cause and effect reversed. As I understand it and have experienced it, peng is a result (effect): it is not a cause. For example, peng doesn't cause relaxation: relaxation "causes" (is a prerequisite for) peng. Peng doesn't cause the things he attributes to it, but, rather, are the result of what is done to produce peng. That is, the cause can have more than one effect, one of which can be peng.

charles wrote:

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:From the lin kong jin master...What a dick.

Now, now. He's raised a very valid point. How about addressing his point rather than just going for the ad hominem?

How is it that everyone has a definition of "peng", many of which differ from one another, but few have the skills for which the art is famous? Something doesn't add up.

I appreciate Steve's poem, and his efforts to try to describe what is peng. However, I think he has cause and effect reversed. As I understand it and have experienced it, peng is a result (effect): it is not a cause. For example, peng doesn't cause relaxation: relaxation "causes" (is a prerequisite for) peng. Peng doesn't cause the things he attributes to it, but, rather, are the result of what is done to produce peng. That is, the cause can have more than one effect, one of which can be peng.

Nope. He is a troll and doesn't respond to that sort of conversation. That's been proven over and over. There was a time when I tried.

Do I think peng is the same in every system? No. Do I think Steve's poem was useful? Yes.

Why don't you put your mouth where your money is and show us a video of you showing some peng in an uncooperative setting? That seems to be what you and the troll are asking for. I think Steve has put up some very nice videos despite extensive and repeated major surgeries that left him unable to walk for extended periods. I have also enjoyed your videos, but haven't seen you doing anything that the "famed masters of olde" did.

At any rate, I find your initiation of discussion with Steve to be far less condescending than the one I responded to.

Finally, I don't believe in lin kong jin.

charles wrote: I think he has cause and effect reversed. As I understand it and have experienced it, peng is a result (effect): it is not a cause. For example, peng doesn't cause relaxation: relaxation "causes" (is a prerequisite for) peng. Peng doesn't cause the things he attributes to it, but, rather, are the result of what is done to produce peng. That is, the cause can have more than one effect, one of which can be peng..

Which among other things is also what I noted and wondered about hence the questions.

windwalker wrote:

Steve Rowe wrote:Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past.

What makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's opinion. I would think it's what a person does with it and can demonstrate rather than how it's done or explained.

In what are called the taiji classics it's pretty well documented as to the qualities and usage.

You have put forth a theory about what you feel it is, how do you test your theory to make sure what you say you are doing is in fact what you're doing.

@ Steve,

What I had initially wondered and asked about was

Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past.

I don't feel that everyone has a different opinion of what peng is, my feelings are more towards that some may have different levels of attainment
that they ascribe "pung or peng jin" to...which when examined may not be the case. Those that have reached a certain level in practice IME will and do tend to agree on things more then not.

You've shared some of your theory, just wondered how you tested it to insure in fact what you've described is in fact what you are doing.

I understand if you choose not to address this in public, the question was asked out curiosity nothing more.
Good video production btw,,,

charles wrote:I appreciate Steve's poem, and his efforts to try to describe what is peng. However, I think he has cause and effect reversed. As I understand it and have experienced it, peng is a result (effect): it is not a cause. For example, peng doesn't cause relaxation: relaxation "causes" (is a prerequisite for) peng. Peng doesn't cause the things he attributes to it, but, rather, are the result of what is done to produce peng. That is, the cause can have more than one effect, one of which can be peng.

+1

I liked the vid and appreciated it. I don't agree with everything and I have a very strict view on what should be called peng and what shouldn't. But it doesn't matter much or anything at all. The point is that something you learn should be of practical value, something that you can use in your practice. So everything that leads your practical practice into the right direction is fine with me. And there's a whole lot of it here.

charles wrote:I appreciate Steve's poem, and his efforts to try to describe what is peng. However, I think he has cause and effect reversed. As I understand it and have experienced it, peng is a result (effect): it is not a cause. For example, peng doesn't cause relaxation: relaxation "causes" (is a prerequisite for) peng. Peng doesn't cause the things he attributes to it, but, rather, are the result of what is done to produce peng. That is, the cause can have more than one effect, one of which can be peng.

You're right Charles, that's something I could have made more clear.

Windwalker wrote: You've shared some of your theory, just wondered how you tested it to insure in fact what you've described is in fact what you are doing.

I'm lucky that I teach a lot of very experienced martial artists across a range of disciplines including security personnel, LEO'S and sports fighters, so we get test everything in a variety of formats.

Can anybody peng anyone so much that they will never fear
Never worry never be sad
The answer is they cannot peng this much nobody can
This is why I don't mind you doubting

And maybe peng is letting people be just what they want to be
The door always must be left unlocked
To peng when circumstance may lead someone away from you
And not to spend the time just doubting

What is Peng anyway, does anybody peng anybody anyway
What is Peng anyway, does anybody peng anybody anyway

- Howard Jones

I'm lucky that I teach a lot of very experienced martial artists across a range of disciplines including security personnel, LEO'S and sports fighters, so we get test everything in a variety of formats.

sorry, maybe my writing was not so clear.
In your clip you mentioned energy, helix's, expanding force, opening and closing ect. in conjunction with what you feel to be
"peng/pung" is.

just wondered if or how you tested this to insure that what you felt was happening was in fact happening.
What or how would one show this to be true...

Again if it's not something easily talked about on line, completely understand.

Work with many people having engineering degrees up to phd levels, in many fields including robotics.

When we talk of not using force, and they feel no force used and yet are moved, the theory used may or may
not explain what or why something happens or not. I have my own demos and hands on that I use to test or validate
theories followed by practical applications which make use of them...

good clip as I mentioned, enjoy reading you....