the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Windwalker not sure I fully understand what you're getting at but we use a lot of 'testing' postures by pushing at a variety of angles, also the Yang Family 'dynamic' push hands and 'springing' hands to deal with a moving incoming force, that eventually leads to the wall training. Our security and LEO students (and myself in that role in the past) find it particularly useful to remain stable in crowd and mob situations and to 'ward off' an idiot attacker by having him just bounce off a good structure.

Your post titled "what is peng" followed by a poem and your description of along with

Controversial because everyone seems to have a different opinion as to what peng is. But.... maybe it's not so much as in the past

I don't really find it very "controversial" seems like its very clearly documented by many of the old masters.
Your post piked my interest in some of your explanations which others have asked about "Charles" ect.

Just wondered how you came to and tested such things. For example spiraling, expanding ect.

In light of some of the other comments, I don't really feel its useful to talk much more about it on line.

In my own work we use the idea and function of emptiness. which first starts with understanding how to and making ones body
act as a spherical body at any point of contact. The many demos that some have problems with show this, the way its explained is a little
different in verbiage but essentially means the same.
As "Charles" noted a lot of things depend on level and type of inquiry that people make
in understanding them.

best of luck in your training,,,
thought the wheel chair training idea was quite good, and would help a lot of people...

Steve Rowe wrote:we use a lot of 'testing' postures by pushing at a variety of angles, also the Yang Family 'dynamic' push hands and 'springing' hands to deal with a moving incoming force, that eventually leads to the wall training. Our security and LEO students (and myself in that role in the past) find it particularly useful to remain stable in crowd and mob situations and to 'ward off' an idiot attacker by having him just bounce off a good structure.

Steve, why dont you just put up a video of what you describe and everyone is happy!

CarstenM wrote:Steve, why dont you just put up a video of what you describe and everyone is happy!

+1

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:There was a time when I tried.

Fair enough.

Why don't you put your mouth where your money is and show us a video of you showing some peng in an uncooperative setting? That seems to be what you and the troll are asking for.

Actually, I wasn't asking for anything, least of all a video demonstrating peng being used. Most won't agree on what is, or isn't, being shown and whether or not it is "peng". Peng is something you feel, not something someone demonstrates on a video.

I think Steve has put up some very nice videos despite extensive and repeated major surgeries that left him unable to walk for extended periods.

I agree, even more so given his surgeries.

I have also enjoyed your videos, but haven't seen you doing anything that the "famed masters of olde" did.

I'm not a master, famed, or of olde. My videos are aimed at specific aspects of the basics for beginners. In those videos, I avoid like the plague the use of most of the traditional jargon, including the term "peng".

At any rate, I find your initiation of discussion with Steve to be far less condescending than the one I responded to.

I try not to be condescending in my interaction with others. Sometimes I'm successful.

Finally, I don't believe in lin kong jin.

Me either. However, others have the right to believe in it if they want to without my insulting them. I've never considered my self particularly tolerant of contrary view points, but, these days, compared to the shit going on in the world, I guess I am.

I thought about putting up some training vids to try and explain both this and the spine and core one but TBH it would probably just look like normal exercises and drills because it's not what you do but how you do it. I really think that getting on someone's hands is the only way of really experiencing any of this and I don't mean that in a negative sense but in training and testing.

Steve Rowe wrote:I thought about putting up some training vids to try and explain both this and the spine and core one but TBH it would probably just look like normal exercises and drills because it's not what you do but how you do it. I really think that getting on someone's hands is the only way of really experiencing any of this and I don't mean that in a negative sense but in training and testing.

Wouldn't you see the effects of Peng on the Uke?

I would very much appreciate seeing the training videos. Although the subtleties might be totally lost it would still be valuable to at least see what drills you are using to try and apply the principles spoken about. I think most folks here would be bright enough to join the dots and speculate to what degree peng/internal power is being used. Of course then the thread would degenerate in to name calling but it is the internet after all

IMO a good shenfa (body method) will always have a certain quality that will shine through. The point of sharing something might not always be about how to teach details, but still be important for others, as it shows that time and effort builds a certain skill that can't be replicated easily. People who show good skill, regardless what they show, can always act as an inspiration for others. ...IMHO.

what about this, any peng in here, it popped up on my facebook feed this morning.
I quite enjoyed watching him whilst taking my morning mud out.

Quite nice applications, but IMHO, not so much Peng. Almost all movements appear to begin with shoulders or elbows not DanTien. His body doesn't display much expand and contract and his partners show little or no response when they contact him. Typical Westernised Chan Tse.
Just an outsiders POV.

oh cool, he has another one on uprooting.
maybe you can cast your expert eye over that one for us too.

any peng?
if not so much, maybe you know of any good ones for the board.

I started another thread that has a couple examples of peng jin - to separate it from comments about Steve's video.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25888

If you look around 20 sec in the second clip he takes the students arms to the outside and pushes him away
All the student has to do is the first movement from any form
Raise his hands up inside the teachers arms and he has the teachers whole body at his command
Who in combat allows you to lead both his hands back to the side of his body
Even the most untrained student will either seek a superior position or step back and realign
I see this done in so many pushing clips
It just comes from bad training at a rudimentary level

cloudz wrote:oh cool, he has another one on uprooting.
maybe you can cast your expert eye over that one for us too.

any peng?
if not so much, maybe you know of any good ones for the board.

Hello George,
It appears I have given some kind of offense. I am not an expert but my eyes are well trained. I gave an opinion not meant as a critique of the mans overall skills but simply of what I look for when talking about the Peng quality. Full, connected tissue roundness, stability in all directions, sticky and/or bounce and crash. The limbs exhibit the same qualities to a lesser degree and winding actions are a result of expressing dantien in the extremities. I don't think of Peng as up force, rather as a sphere expanding outwards in all directions simultaneously. So past the mid line of the body Peng presses down, above that line it uproots. I have felt people hit my legs with a down force and my upper body with an up force causing a "freeze" . So to me Peng is multi functional. How to develop it is the interesting part!

Again sorry for any offense given.

Sorry, I do not find much in this one either. I will dig up some old school stuff when I have time.