What Is Peng

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Re: What Is Peng

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:35 pm

robert wrote:
everything wrote:Sometimes (or often) I like to oversimplify as I were explaining this to a kid. You can't say "kid, go off and sink qi for a while and come back".

Wait, that's what I was told to do ;)
When I started studying Chen taiji I did a private lesson with my teacher and he asked what I wanted to work on. I said peng jin and he said "let's stand". After three years of standing my teacher pointed out that my dantian was full. I continued to stand, but started to work on silk reeling as well. I'm too embarrassed to say how long I trained before I started to really understand neijin. :-\


Just curious, how would you qualify this understanding .What does it allow you to do that you could not do before with out it.

Could you post one example of something you can do now that you could not do before using any other type of method.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:13 pm

For all those using the metaphor of floating a boat does it matter how big the boat is or how deep the water.

If we put a toy boat in a puddle and a big boat in the ocean do they both exemplify pung.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby everything on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:18 pm

Robert, were you a kid, though?! Pretty amazing if you did that. (Also, still impressive if you did it as an adult)
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:32 pm

does it matter how big the boat is or how deep the water.


:) Nope. Water doesn't care about the size of the boat. It displaces only as much as necessary. But, it's not about water or boats. If it were, then "peng" would only work with certain size "boats." Like water, however, it works with boats of any size.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby robert on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:36 pm

windwalker wrote:Just curious, how would you qualify this understanding .

What was pointed out to me was a sensation. There are a couple things that are interesting. My teacher pointed it out to me. I think for the first 7 or 8 years I studied Chen style my teacher seemed to know my body better than I did. It demonstrated to me that although there is no physical structure called dantian there is a physicality to it.

windwalker wrote:What does it allow you to do that you could not do before with out it.

The question doesn't make sense to me. To me it is more of a signpost or indicator, but it goes hand in hand with connection. If my dantian feels full my upper body is connected, if my upper body is not connected my dantian does not feel full.

windwalker wrote:Could you post one example of something you can do now that you could not do before using any other type of method.

Again the question doesn't make sense to me. The dantian develops over time, and feeling full is just the first step, it's a foot in the door. Other methods are fine, but as a minimalist standing has a strong appeal for me.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:52 pm

Steve James wrote:
does it matter how big the boat is or how deep the water.


:) Nope. Water doesn't care about the size of the boat. It displaces only as much as necessary. But, it's not about water or boats. If it were, then "peng" would only work with certain size "boats." Like water, however, it works with boats of any size.


ya might want to rethink that. I did say metaphor and assumed wrongly that it would be taken as such.

Like water, however, it works with boats of any size.


like water there is a relationship to size and displacement it will not
work with "boats" of any size.

Like water according to the "relationship"
they both illustrate the same idea.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:08 pm

robert wrote:What was pointed out to me was a sensation. There are a couple things that are interesting. My teacher pointed it out to me. I think for the first 7 or 8 years I studied Chen style my teacher seemed to know my body better than I did. It demonstrated to me that although there is no physical structure called dantian there is a physicality to it.


People can have many sensations with out actually having achieved the ability or function. A teacher should be able to point out things going on in a students body and help them to understand and adjust accordingly.


The question doesn't make sense to me. To me it is more of a signpost or indicator, but it goes hand in hand with connection. If my dantian feels full my upper body is connected, if my upper body is not connected my dantian does not feel full.


all relative to ones self. The question was along the lines of how did you verify it. In China, if some one ask another to "pung" they are asking them to express a quality in movement or structure,,,not how they'er feeling about it. Many feel they've achieved or are "fan song" for example but when tested or examined really are not..

Again the question doesn't make sense to me. The dantian develops over time, and feeling full is just the first step, it's a foot in the door. Other methods are fine, but as a minimalist standing has a strong appeal for me.
[/quote]

You've mentioned "full" a couple of times along with "feeling" "full" can mean many things, some might use it to mean "intention" others might use to mean other things. My point was just to ask what did you feel this "feeling" allowed to do that you could not do before.....

Again this question was asked out curiosity, it seems we have some very different view points
luck in your training..... ;)
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Ok, rethought, peng is like water floating a boat. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby robert on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:57 pm

everything wrote:Robert, were you a kid, though?! Pretty amazing if you did that. (Also, still impressive if you did it as an adult)

Oh no, I was an adult and had already trained in Yang, a little Wu, xingyi, and bagua. An hour a day everyday for three years.
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby Giles on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:38 am

windwalker wrote:For all those using the metaphor of floating a boat does it matter how big the boat is or how deep the water.

If we put a toy boat in a puddle and a big boat in the ocean do they both exemplify pung.


Indeed. Same physical principle whether tiny or gargantuan. But the example of a small boat, something no larger than rowing boat size, or a small raft or a large floating ball, best communicates the kind of quality in the body and the experience that one aims to create in "peng". In other words, it best translates the metaphor into a target for physical training and skill. Pushing down on a floating aircraft carrier, or on a floating peanut shell, are phyically the same but both are situations less inspiring to the tai chi practitioner at the kinaesthetic level... ;)
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Re: What Is Peng

Postby robert on Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:48 am

windwalker wrote:You've mentioned "full" a couple of times along with "feeling" "full" can mean many things, some might use it to mean "intention" others might use to mean other things. My point was just to ask what did you feel this "feeling" allowed to do that you could not do before.....

It looks like I misunderstood your question. Are you asking what I feel the benefits of standing were?
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