Bao wrote:wuwei sifu wrote:NOW SO FAR AS PENG IS CONCERNED YOU HAVE TO BE SUNG IN TABLE TENNIS JUST LIKE IN TAIJIQUAN IN ORDER TO BEST EXPRESS POWER/SPEED AS WELL AS MORE SUBTLE ACTIONS ON DEFENSE AND MORE NEUTRAL TRANSITIONS BASED ON HOW U NEED TO RETURN THE BALL. i'VE has ALWAYS been able to relate to both very easily and having a couple of russian coaches made me understand things on a more intimate level then your avg. ping pong player who doesn't have a coach.
yes, the idea of the body and energy being whole and connected is a peng jing essential. it's the same in many tennis and table tennis shots and they are producing whole body power.
wayne hansen wrote:I have always used Tyson as an example of tai chi energy
Due to him being shorter than most of his opponents he always hits up from the ground
He follows the energy
Rooted in the feet
Sprouts from the thighs
Directed by the waist
Manifests in the fingertips
windwalker wrote:IMO, this might have to do with that the perfectly relaxed and connected limb offer no resistance for the kinetic energy. What the reciever feels is both the impact of the body (mostly the hand/fist) and then also the kinetic movement itself.
If there is no resistance to the "kinetic energy" why would a receiver feel the impact from a localized source ie.
"hand/fist" and then from "the movement itself"
to answer your question. imho you basically mashed up an idea in your mind of what he is trying to explain. you have confused the idea of the person issuing force that does so in a way that does not hinder the energy projected with a faulty conclusion that you came too based on your misunderstanding of what he was trying to say.
so to make it more clear if what you assumed he was trying to say was correct then you would also be correct in what the receiver would not feel. but since you missed the point your conclusion is made mute by windwalkers actual intent/answer.IME, when you manage to issue this kind of force, the more the receiver feels, the less the issuer feels. It feels as you did almost nothing at all, as there is nothing in the body that stop or limit the transferring of the force from the center of own's own body into the receiver. So you won't feel anything of the force or of the transmission itself.
I can attest to the above form personal experience as i know others who are beyond my meager skills can relate to also.
when I used press against my teacher, his eyes got huge. when we later talked about it and he asked me what I had done.
I said nothing I just used press is all. then I broke down how I actually did my press which = I expand outwardly but not in just one direction.
years later teaching a student I used press again. YangYi's feet left the floor and he ended up on his but and slid a bit before stopping. it sort of hurt because he had his wallet in his back pocket and the impact made that part of his butt hurt. He did not feel any pain at the point of contact or anywhere else in his body. he only felt the consequences of himself hitting the floor and nothing more.
Yet, because this happened and I had not intended it to happen I realized that I had to be more careful with what I did with people. I had always made it a point, not to have any type of malice/feelings of anger when showing applications independently or via tui shou. I thought at that time that was enough to keep folks safe. I later realized because of the incident with YangYi that the force would come out without me being in real attack mode or angry at all.
I never felt any hint of something in me that would let me know I was about to do something that could cause such an extreme reaction in someone else. Lesson learned
IME the receiver, will also not feel anything and yet be moved.
I would say what the issuer feels or not depends on whether he is ahead of or behind the "energy" being transported by what I would call a wave.
All reactions by the receiver are from the bodies interaction in trying to reestablish its equilibrium from what it feels....either falling down or hoping up
trying not to fall.
Since its obviously not a kinetic force by a solid medium, most will and do question why people react the way they do.
It becomes hard to believe for most watching.
ok, I want to know how can we be ahead of the energy that we project if it is coming from us. I don't understand
years later teaching a student I used press again. YangYi's feet left the floor and he ended up on his but and slid a bit before stopping. it sort of hurt because he had his wallet in his back pocket and the impact made that part of his butt hurt. He did not feel any pain at the point of contact or anywhere else in his body. he only felt the consequences of himself hitting the floor and nothing more.
Yes there's the TCM & neigong perspectives but these mean very little when a fist is heading to my face.
windwalker wrote:Dynamically this is used to understand and keep all points balanced at a what I call a zero point.
Their is no sense of a localized force felt, by the person expressing this.
The one trying to apply their force it never reaches the ground, in most cases they will lose their own sense of ground contact and end up
floating being pushed away by their own force.
What this means is that any point touched or force applied, is dealt with at the contact point as the yin/yang forces are
zeroed out enabling one to add, subtract, or neutralized the applied forces. This means the other person has to deal with their own force
plus an added "energy" to their force.
windwalker wrote:In my practice if i want to express more pung jin, I become more straighter, and spherical any and all points can express this. Statically creates an expanding "energy" when outer and inner forces are balanced think "boundary layer"
Dynamically this is used to understand and keep all points balanced at a what I call a zero point.
Their is no sense of a localized force felt, by the person expressing this.
The one trying to apply their force it never reaches the ground, in most cases they will lose their own sense of ground contact and end up floating being pushed away by their own force.
If it is then how does this sort of thinking translate to a person who is very stable, throws very quick strikes that might land on the legs, torso, arms or head. I mention this because 99% of the time this concept is demonstrated on sloppy single motion punches and almost all arguments about it's use are that this can be applied at any point because at that point usually draw on an analogy of a balloon or ball.
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