the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

dspyrido wrote:If it is then how does this sort of thinking translate to a person who is very stable, throws very quick strikes that might land on the legs, torso, arms or head. I mention this because 99% of the time this concept is demonstrated on sloppy single motion punches and almost all arguments about it's use are that this can be applied at any point because at that point usually draw on an analogy of a balloon or ball. That is until the attacker picks them up by the legs....

IMO, a lots of TMA practice you see only deal with quite artificial ways of dealing with physical bodies and physical forces. Most people learn standard ways like: "IF a body moves in this way and IF the body has this kind of balance, then you apply force in this or that way. But only IF.... T'ai Chi Ch'uan is IMHO still a bit better than a lot of technical practice in many styles, because here you learn how to intuitively follow and feel directions of force, so there are no exact way or standard way to do something. Yet TTC practitioners forget psychology of reality, reactions, counter reactions and all sorts of implications of bad human behaviour.

----- And to some random OT rambling BS:

But how much do you want to learn or how much can you learn without putting yourself out there in real situations, dealing with all sorts of bad people and bad behaviour? What is the cost of learning and are you willing to pay?

I am already really tired of all this never ending repetitious "your shit is fake and won't work" shit. The most people who criticise traditional martial artists and their practice have just as a bad sense of reality as the people they criticise. And mostly they criticise traditional martial artists just to look better than they are. But OTOH, people who have lived surrounded with real violence, fighting and experienced real hardships of life, IME, seem to be people who are very open to traditional martial arts, genuinely fascinated and most willing to learn all that fake shit.

....Just IMHO as usual...

If it is then how does this sort of thinking translate to a person who is very stable, throws very quick strikes that might land on the legs, torso, arms or head. I mention this because 99% of the time this concept is demonstrated on sloppy single motion punches and almost all arguments about it's use are that this can be applied at any point because at that point usually draw on an analogy of a balloon or ball. That is until the attacker picks them up by the legs....

If one has gained the skill sets, the strategies used should be reflective of them.

What I often see happen, is that there seems to be a misunderstanding between development and testing of a skill
and the combative strategies that they enable...asked by those who may not have the skill sets in trying to understand them.

It might be better to talk of the development, how its tested,
and what type of strategies it enables.

My last line of questioning just reflects what I think is a flaw in the idea of sticking only (connecting, feeling and flowing with an attacker) when there is no solid ground line structure. It is a point in time movement that can be misled (with feints) and overwhelmed (with flurries) and many assume they can apply this method when someone grabs say the waist or legs even if they have never trained for this.

This thread http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25928&sid=7889a7a283c64907481a247615d62f6d just nails the problem.

What I mentioned earlier on connecting the body I learnt under ima/tcma.

From a martial perspective I've seen the relevance of the lower dantien and how it relates to connecting the extremities - hands to the feet (and head).

At the simplest level it is the engagement of deeper musculature below the visible muscles combined with alignment when pressure is applied on them to pass the force through.

It works really well especially when in a grappling situation when dealing with wrestlers. Combined with structure sticking works because the attacker is throwing a lot into the attack in order to destabilise but they are meeting a structure that is not easy to see or understand. Simple example is controlling someone's head when they attempt to do a single or double leg take down. As they shoot place a palm on the head and ground the body. Use this to deflect them away. They push harder but that ends up moving them more and more offline.

It also works really well against boxers because it can maintain fluid arms (to deflect) and fluid legs (to move around) and have a structure to back it. Many punches can come in but with structure to back the arms it is easy to just bat them away without having to apply big moves. Plus having the legs and torso being fluid (yet connected) means it is not a problem to just step around or sway.

Bao wrote:
----- And to some random OT rambling BS:

But how much do you want to learn or how much can you learn without putting yourself out there in real situations, dealing with all sorts of bad people and bad behaviour? What is the cost of learning and are you willing to pay?

I am already really tired of all this never ending repetitious "your shit is fake and won't work" shit. The most people who criticise traditional martial artists and their practice have just as a bad sense of reality as the people they criticise. And mostly they criticise traditional martial artists just to look better than they are. But OTOH, people who have lived surrounded with real violence, fighting and experienced real hardships of life, IME, seem to be people who are very open to traditional martial arts, genuinely fascinated and most willing to learn all that fake shit.

....Just IMHO as usual...

well said. "self defense" should help you deal with all the various hardships of life (not just "fighting" or physical challenges). In that sense, traditional arts probably have quite a lot to offer.

dspyrido wrote:My last line of questioning just reflects what I think is a flaw in the idea of sticking only (connecting, feeling and flowing with an attacker) when there is no solid ground line structure. It is a point in time movement that can be misled (with feints) and overwhelmed (with flurries) and many assume they can apply this method when someone grabs say the waist or legs even if they have never trained for this.

This thread http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25928&sid=8c82ea8c1d918646a1abe46aac386445 just nails the problem.

You're an experienced fellow.
I think I get what you want to talk about.

But...Please, tell me where do you see "sticking" in that video?
Because the only sticking I see in that video, is a fist to someone’s head.

While you’re looking, could you also tell me if you saw Taiji?
BTW, the title doesn’t count.

Trip wrote:

dspyrido wrote:My last line of questioning just reflects what I think is a flaw in the idea of sticking only (connecting, feeling and flowing with an attacker) when there is no solid ground line structure. It is a point in time movement that can be misled (with feints) and overwhelmed (with flurries) and many assume they can apply this method when someone grabs say the waist or legs even if they have never trained for this.

This thread http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25928&sid=eba68b35e0cf9e57862733a10c41a72f just nails the problem.

You're an experienced fellow.
I think I get what you want to talk about.

But...Please, tell me where do you see "sticking" in that video?
Because the only sticking I see in that video, is a fist to someone’s head.

While you’re looking, could you also tell me if you saw Taiji?
BTW, the title doesn’t count.

Oh there's a bit of sticking. It happens on contact for less than 1/10 of a second before the punches start flying. It's even happening while fist meets face because the mma guy is doing it. He is controlling the arms & balance of the poor TC guy. Of course he is not doing it the soft way is he.

There are so many things wrong with the TC guy trying this out I don't even know where to begin. Maybe on that thread but I will say one thing - the TC had next to no grounding. The best move he did was step to the side and deflected the bull as he rushed in. You might say it is an example of using 4 ounces ... but in doing so his poor centre of gravity was even more offbalanced & he was way open for a pounding. Which he received.