Torben Bremann: Chen style, Huang Taiji and Sam Tam

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Torben Bremann: Chen style, Huang Taiji and Sam Tam

Postby xian89 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:09 am

My teacher (Torben Bremann) is in the process of getting his youtube videos translated to english, and I thought this one might be of interest to you:



According to Patrick Kelley, Wee Kee Jin and Yek Sing Ong (all personal students of Master Huang), it is THE fundamental exercise of the Huang system and the one the old man himself considered to be the quintessential exercise for understanding his system.
I've followed Adam's online course for a bit, but it didn't show up during the time I was a member. Maybe it comes later, but if not you can get the basics of it here :)

If you like the Dan Harden terminologi, I find this exercise to be working the misogi way of utilizing opposing forces while also fantastic for working on song qua and being mindfuld of tension in the lower back. At least initially - there are different levels, but this is the basic version.

Shugyo! I Hope the video is to your benefit.
Last edited by xian89 on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:44 pm

This is indeed the first of Huangs exercises and often is overlooked as is the next one stepping out
I will be interested to see how your teacher does the rest
The one thing I might mention is that it would look better if when he explains he doesn't look down and compromise his posture
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby GrahamB on Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:12 am

THE fundamental exercise


I'm constantly amazed by how many people are satisfied with so little.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby Steve Rowe on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:54 am

It is a basic exercise, but also covers important aspects that so many people lack. I like it.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:32 pm

I am constantly amazed by people who that they can't see the depth of simplicity
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby Young Grasshopper on Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:25 am

I would much rather see a basic exercise done correctly than a complicated one done poorly. And if you go back to the source of the problem usually it's because they spent more time training other things rather than the basics. Foundation is key.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby northern_mantis on Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:54 am

The problem is when foundations are delivered without any connection to a measurable end goal. Maybe there is some degree of concern that if the desired outcome was properly articulated then students would go off and find a more efficient way to acheive it on their own.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby xian89 on Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:18 am

Subtitles have been added for the next video - again, there are many layers with spirals etc not covered. It is meant as a basic introduction to the exercise. If you want a deeper look into what goes on internally in exercises such as this, I can recommend Torben's online program: http://exploringtaiji.com/
It isn't really working yet - I believe it launches in late may.

Is this the exercise you mentioned Wayne?

GrahamB: That the exercise physically might seem simple, does not necessarily imply that what is going on internally is simple or easy, and the exercise without benefit. Standing is deceptively simple from the outside too, yet it is the cornorstone in, and gateway to, many internal systems and their principles such as six direction training, breathwork etc.

northern_mantis: I am no expert, but I find the exercises in the Huang tradition very good for the purpose of getting connected to the ground in a "heavy" way, and releasing excessive muscular tension, which have a way of blocking the internal connections in the body. This leads to (one kind) of connection and physical stability.
But getting "vertically connected" through exercises such as this makes it easier to begin getting "horisontally connected" via six direction training, is my experience.
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby yeniseri on Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:19 pm

GrahamB wrote:
THE fundamental exercise


I'm constantly amazed by how many people are satisfied with so little.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.


I know nothing about Huang Taiji but I have read about him but what I saw from the 'neigong' piece is in line with pre exercise (for lack of a better word) routine that one starts before actual taijiquan practice. They tend to mimic a format of yu bei shi (beginning stance(s) where one raises the hands in various quadrants (sides/front/daigonal raising) with lowering and raising with and without hands and at times raising within lowereing and lowering within raising. At best, it mimics 8 shi taijiquan as individual posture(s) practice!
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Re: For those of you following Adam Mizner or Huang Taiji

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:27 pm

Even though I have learnt a lot of standing exercises over the years I don't teach them
I consider these exercises to be standing for my students
If you want to stand longer just do more reps
Is this his first exercise if so he is doing them in the original sequence
He doesn't go to cross hands in this clip why is that
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Re: ATT: followers of Adam Mizner, Huang Taiji or Sam Tam

Postby xian89 on Sun May 07, 2017 10:51 am

New translation.
Torben starts out with the Huang stuff, because it provides a good foundation for working with Sam Tam's stuff.
It helps to remove brakes in your system and is a tried and true way and accessible way of learning basic movement patterns, learning to use intent, to what being connected feels like, using as little muscular force as possible, learning what a "groundpath" is and other basic but necessary steps.
Working on expansion, inflation, dantian etc. without first having "flesh hanging from the bones" runs the risk of just creating unnecessary tension, dis-connect and being an ineffective process. Remove brakes before pushing the speeder.



Wayne hansen: You ask why he doesn't cross his hands in the earlier video.
Are you maybe thinking of this exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgvDBUXuEWE&t=8s ?
If so, they are unrelated exercises. I do not know how prevalent the practice of it is. Some of the Huang students following master Jeng from Peace Park in Taiwan practice it, and Patrick Kelly knows it as well, although I have heard he doesn't teach it for whatever reason.
I think that while good, there are certain internal principles that are best realized in classic standing positions, rather than these loosening exercises. But it depends on what part of the internal on focuses on as well, of course.
Focusing on these things however is easily countered by someone with more, perhaps better, tools in the internal toolbox - which is why high level master Huang practitioners like Wee Kee Jin are easily controlled by people like Sam Tam.

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Re: ATT: followers of Adam Mizner, Huang Taiji or Sam Tam

Postby wayne hansen on Sun May 07, 2017 1:47 pm

Even in the exercise you pointed out he doesn't cross hands
The reason I asked is because that is the original way Huang taught that exercise
It was taught as the first exercise at that time before he changed the order and made number 3 the first
In both the exercises you show he brings the hands in the central position to a point parallel with the ground not letting them go to cross hands
The reason I think Huang changed this was he realised it was not as relaxed as letting it reach its free height
Imagine it is a skateboard half pipe
You take off from the top turn on the opposite side and come back each time using the aid of gravity and momentum
Eventually gravity will take over with no aid from you
If you retard the movement on the other side you must supply the energy to get back to the top yourself
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Re: ATT: followers of Adam Mizner, Huang Taiji or Sam Tam

Postby xian89 on Tue May 09, 2017 5:20 am

In the video of the 2. loosening exercise, the hands do cross:
Image

Is there a video of the movement done the way you are talking about it, Wayne?
Did you learn from Huang himself or what is your lineage? It is always fascinating to learn new things :)
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Re: ATT: followers of Adam Mizner, Huang Taiji or Sam Tam

Postby wayne hansen on Tue May 09, 2017 12:36 pm

It was our great grandmaster yap Sui ting who introduced Huang to CMC
It was Huang who asked YST to come to Penang chin Wu to take over from him after pushing with our grandmaster Chock Seng kam
I know the original set that Huang developed his set from
Saying that I learned Huangs set from 3 of his direct students and have been teaching them since 1978
I also had Huangs book and film of his 10th anniversary celebration where each one of his branch schools demonstrated his exercises and all his curriculum
There is film on YouTube of Huang doing these exercises
By cross hands I mean the finishing point of cross hands in the form
I like the way your teacher does them and how he breaks them down even though the order and method is different to how I choose to do them
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Re: ATT: followers of Adam Mizner, Huang Taiji or Sam Tam

Postby xian89 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:46 am

http://exploringtaiji.com/ is now live for those interested :)
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