Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

[Sajite]

INMHO the big questions here are:
How this taichi master had himself tested before acepted this match?
How this taichi master has been trained for years without knowing his real potential in "real" fight?
Have the methods he has trained some effect on their believings?

When you train you train for truth... you got to know who you are and what are you able to do. If not it's simple because you're practicing blindly without testing yourself.


The problem here is delusion.
A method has to have a way to fight delusion and provide truth. If not, it's not a true martial art method.

[C.J.W.]

IMO, the Taiji guy has most certainly "embellished" his resume; judging by his performance during the fight, there's no f****ing way that he has had any substantial amount of training in Sanda, Taekwondo, and Muay Thai like he claimed.

[Strange]

http://www.wenxuecity.com/news/2017/04/30/6205777.html

Interview with Lei after the match
personally, i think he is talking cock


... he said that the mats were for barefooted training
not used to it so he tripped when he backstepped
and that actually all the punches did not connect

if taiji skill is good
both feet grow roots, no such thing as back stepping
attacks come, it is "hua" away

i think hes has very big misunderstanding of fighting
and taiji concepts
but he has his own taiji martial arts methods and his
own students

some say use misconception to relay misconception

it is very amusing
cos it is broad daylight, everyone has their eyes open,
but nobody knows where they are

[windwalker]

IMO, the Taiji guy has most certainly "embellished" his resume; judging by his performance during the fight, there's no f****ing way that he has had any substantial amount of training in Sanda, Taekwondo, and Muay Thai like he claimed.

It is strange that most if not all matches like this tend to end up the same way,
and yet everyone knows people who can make what they do work.

What would you attribute the success of this teacher to reach this point.

[middleway]

What would you attribute the success of this teacher to reach this point.

I would say that it is very easy to convince people who havnt regularly experienced real violence or the pressures of competition that fighting skill is found in the domain of 'applications'. We see it constantly ... How many 'teachers' are regularly testing themselves with anyone but their own adoring disciples? not many ... and there in lies the biggest problem. Losing face, hierachy, traditional boundaries etc all contribute to the loss of fighting ability IMO, but they also Add the effectiveness of tricks and the illusions of skills when someone is embedded within them.

and yet everyone knows people who can make what they do work.

Work in what respect though. For those of us that have tasted the bitter of both worlds it is very hard to accept the views that the envrionent of a controlled challenge match against a skilled opponent should some how inhibit anyones skill to fight ... especially someone considered an adept. Working the doors you know the most common things i saw? Flurries of furious punching, grabbing of clothes and ground and pound. If you cant defend them in a controlled environemnt like the challenge we saw, you have little hope when you are reeling from the pre-fight build up, the adrenalin dump, the multple aggressive people in your face ...

We can talk about how such and such a master used to have challenge matches just like this one ... and beat the opponents up, but how do we really know? many here have talked of GMs who used to have a lot of fights. Yet it seems in the modern world the ability to fight with Internal Arts is extremely rare, so rare that we can never find good examples of it, so rare in fact as to make the arts dead to all but those very select few who still have 'It' (of which i know there are a few at least)

The problem here of course is that the thousands upon thousands that are still practicing these arts for fighting are convinced by the stories of the old masters besting everyone. They use those very stories to create houses of cards, concinving themselves that, outside of the limited environment of a duel, challenge or sport fight they would have the upper hand. They will not want that house of cards blown down by visiting those who test things in a free way, no matter how limited by rules. They will reject evidence presented in challenge matches like that seen here, saying its a pathetic sight with one breath ... then in the next breath quote their great GM's early challenges as reasons why their own practice is so very deadly ...

It is a very interesting phenom to observe from the outside with no fixed agenda or dog in the fight.

Really it all comes down to what are YOU (general you) doing to make your own methods as good as they can be for the goals you set for yourself. Is the preservation of tradition at the top of the list? Or fighting ability? both have a very different approach.

This guy now has the opportunity to grow dramatically from his experiance. He can take what happened to him and use it to fuel innovation and new approaches in his personal approach to Tai chi. There is no tai chi outside of the individuals practicing it, so if he makes it his own, and his goal is fighting, then more power to the guy. The nay sayers will shout "thats not Tai Chi" while he KO's them with his new found focus.

thanks.

[GrahamB]

I think it's more likely that Lei Gong will retreat from public challenges after this and just keep his head down, teach Tai Chi to his students and stay away from the rough stuff.

[windwalker]

How many 'teachers' are regularly testing themselves with anyone but their own adoring disciples? not many ... and there in lies the biggest problem.

"adoring disciples" very cliche.

I would say the biggest problem is that many do not understand the difference between a coach,
who knows and understand about how to develop an ability, and those who feel that the coach needs to
step up to prove his own ability. For some teachers they too may be confused as to the difference.

His students probably feel that they get what ever it is that they'er seeking
its up to them to test and verify it.....

Fighters do not always make the best coaches, the best coaches are not necessarily the best at what they do or did
but they get proven results.


"Cus" D'Amato comes to mind.....for those seeking to be boxers, he was the go to guy in his day....he did box a little

"Cus had a brief career as an amateur boxer, boxing as a featherweight and lightweight, but was unable to get a professional license because of an eye injury he had suffered in a street fight.[4]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cus_D%27Amato

[RobP3]

Maybe, just maybe, when it comes to fisticuffs, boxing is better overall than tai chi?

[windwalker]

Maybe, just maybe, when it comes to fisticuffs, boxing is better overall than tai chi?

taiji at one time was called "沾拳, touch boxing" from what I've read before being called taiji.
Maybe due to "push hands" the focus has changed....

[Sajite]

How many 'teachers' are regularly testing themselves with anyone but their own adoring disciples? not many ... and there in lies the biggest problem.

"adoring disciples" very cliche.

I would say the biggest problem is that many do not understand the difference between a coach,
who knows and understand about how to develop an ability, and those who feel that the coach needs to
step up to prove his own ability. For some teachers they too may be confused as to the difference.

His students probably feel that they get what ever it is that they'er seeking
its up to them to test and verify it.....

Fighters do not always make the best coaches, the best coaches are not necessarily the best at what they do or did
but they get proven results.


"Cus" D'Amato comes to mind.....for those seeking to be boxers, he was the go to guy in his day....he did box a little

"Cus had a brief career as an amateur boxer, boxing as a featherweight and lightweight, but was unable to get a professional license because of an eye injury he had suffered in a street fight.[4]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cus_D%27Amato

Keep thinkg it's just cliché.

The thing here is he acepted a challenge believing he could get the win.. or at least not embarrass himself.
He accepted.

The guy was totally out of reality.


D'Amato would have no problem having any of his students accepting a challenge btw; he could have sent Floyd Patterson or a guy named Mike Tyson.


Damn Even D'Amato himself at 70 would have done better than the Taiji master.

[Ian]

Quite a few traditional Asian martial arts don't suffer from these problems.

[C.J.W.]

http://www.wenxuecity.com/news/2017/04/30/6205777.html

Interview with Lei after the match
personally, i think he is talking cock

This guy obviously still has his head in the clouds while living in his Taiji la-la land. I'd have much more respect for him if he'd mentioned anything about the defeat being a wake-up call, and that he would strive to improve his skills.

P.S. Having read this and some of his other posts on Weibo, I now feel like rooting for the guy who knocked him silly in 10 seconds .

[GrahamB]

Looks like more traditional martial artists are answering the challenge. This could run and run....

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/ ... r-who-beat

[marvin8]

Chen Zhenglei of Chen village trying to end the fun.

Latest update on the Xu Xiaodong's quest to expose fraud in CMA community in China

Yesterday one of the 4 leaders of Chen village, Chen Zhenglei has made an official statement, claiming that Chen style may have been used for combat at some point in history on the battlefield, (which is complete nonsense but that require a different post to clear up), but now the Chen village isn't about fighting anymore, its about promoting health and a way of life.

He urges all members of the Chen village to ignore Xu's challenge and taunting, as that will just give him more recognition. And he has personally contacted the Chinese Wushu Federation, asking them to put an end to this madness.

Alright, what to take away from this is that the Chen village are scare of Xu, they are scared to fight Xu without their hired guns, and they got enough money and connection to play a political game with Xu, reaching high up into authority in order to bring up some ban on Xu.

Sadly the quest of Xu which we all now know and love, might be killed prematurely by this coward. Part of the old martial tradition was about protecting the face and honor of your style, when ppl talk trash abt it you answer with your fist, but instead now they are all business ppl and thus they answer with money and human resource, this is really a disgrace to the CMA community, and even if they win, the CMA community has lost this fight against Xu.

This is also the very definition of a hypocrite, when the money is good then Chen style is the only combat Taichi still functioning, that is what they have been promoting for all these years, in shows such as Experience real kungfu, Chen village vs Muay thai, Chen village vs Karate, Chen Xiaowang vs strongman, Wang Zhanhai vs strongman, vs judo, vs all kind of stuff. Which were all paid stunts to make themselves look good and pretending to be martial, but soon as a challenger come at the door, then nope they are not about fighting? That is way too cheap and faceless for my taste.

Below is first a link to the official announcement by CZL in Chinese, then a couple of videos where they actively promoted their "martial" power.

http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/W1QOXyS6q9E_gswA3_pzsA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhH0PAsaZI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp89JK-uH0k

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmS2nSm5n2Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEv7I4jSADI


陈正雷回国后终于发声了
陈正雷称，他刚从国外回来，会给陈家沟的年轻人做工作（不理会徐晓冬的叫战），因为应战反而是在抬高对方（徐晓冬）。
MP.WEIXIN.QQ.COM
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/W1QOXyS6q9E_gswA3_pzsA

Why does Chen Village have to rely on Sanda in an open rules (non-staged), challenge match?

Alright, new development today, Xu did a live stream talk discussing his thought on the Wang Zhanjun fight, I've included the video below, but its in Chinese for those who can understand, else you can read my rough translation.

Yesterday Wang Zhanjun decided to send his top "disciple" Han Feilong to fight Xu, and the disciple part is in "" because this guy isn't really trained by Wang himself, but by sanda coach hired by Wang.

Xu made a live stream today replying to Wang's decision, he basically said that his doubt is with whether or not Chen village Taichi can fight, he never doubted whether or not Sanda can fight, so sending this Han who is a professional sanda athlete, does not prove anything against the argument at hand.

Xu can agree to fight Wang's student, but then to be fair Wang must fight Xu's student which is young professional athlete also. If Wang is too scared to fight Xu's student, then Wang should come and fight Xu himself, if he send only his sanda athlete, Xu will also send forth his own sanda or mma athlete.

If Wang agrees to fight Xu himself, then Xu will fight Wang Zhanjun and Wang Zhanhai one after another, each 10 min round no break, no rules, eyes, groin all game, and Xu wont even wear groin guard to be fair. If Xu loses then Xu will knee down and apologize to Wang, if Wang loses then Xu doesn't need him to do anything extra.

Xu also said there is nothing wrong with Chen village teaching Sanda, but everyone with a brain knows that is not why Chen village is famous, ppl don pay a fortune to go there and learn Sanda, they go there to learn "magic", Chen village is actively promoting this "magic" idea, but when put to the test they reply on Sanda, this in itself is fraud.

Just as a side note, the starting price for a Baishi ceremony under any of the Chen 4 warriors is around 200k RMB, I'm pretty sure nobody pays that amount of money so they can learn average Sanda. Now you can understand why Xu got a problem with the whole Chen village setup.

And after the Xu vs Wei Lei fight, tons of ppl criticize Xu for bullying a older person, but the fact is Wei Lei is only 4 years older than Xu, Wei at 41 and Xu at 37, neither one of them is in their prime as far as age goes. Now the funny thing is while ppl are criticizing Xu for that, this Han Feilong that Wang sent is only 21 years old, now you see the irony?

阳光宽频网
365YG.COM
http://www.365yg.com/item/6414779062585 ... 4254451905

[marvin8]

So much for "useless external strength", "just (kick)boxing", and other nonsense. Hopefully another wake-up call for CMA.

. . . and it’s the gloves, it’s the ruleset, it’s in a ring, it’s a sport, only CMA controls limbs, only CMA deals with energy forces, etc. Hopefully, the knowledgeable CMA will be noticed and application of real self-defense skills be appreciated more.

Here is a wrestler displaying “wrestling” or “fighting” skills using opponent’s incoming force, deception, change of direction, not relying on bulky muscles, etc.

Published on Sep 11, 2016
Bodybuilding vs Wrestling in wrestling rules match. Wrestler in red. Bodybuilder in white:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpvrVe9GIAk&t=14s