Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Steve James on Mon May 08, 2017 9:31 am

The Classics explain why the tcc got knocked down.

The feet, legs, and waist should act together
as an integrated whole,
so that while advancing or withdrawing
one can grasp the opportunity of favorable timing
and advantageous position.

If correct timing and position are not achieved,
the body will become disordered
and will not move as an integrated whole;
the correction for this defect
must be sought in the legs and waist.

The principle of adjusting the legs and waist
applies for moving in all directions;
upward or downward,
advancing or withdrawing,
left or right.

All movements are motivated by I [mind-intention],
not external form.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby marvin8 on Mon May 08, 2017 10:31 am

Another discussion on the fight, some may find interest in. :-\

Published on May 4, 2017
An MMA fighter defeated a Tai Chi master in a duel that was livestreamed online. The MMA fighter, Xu Xiaodong, took the victory as an opportunity to mock traditional Chinese martial arts. Xu said that the majority of Chinese martial arts masters are frauds. Many Chinese kung fu masters took offense to Xu's comments and volunteered to challenge him. Was Xu's bout a wakeup call to traditional Chinese martial arts on the need to modernize? We turn to our panel: Anthony Goh, executive vice president, International Wushu Federation; and Xu Chengzhi, a 13th generation Chen Style Tai Chi master.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_3S3VnuBo4
Last edited by marvin8 on Mon May 08, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Kettlebells4U on Tue May 09, 2017 4:47 am

Full post fight interview with Xu
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Pavel Macek on Tue May 09, 2017 4:55 am

Kettlebells4U: So sad - but so true.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby windwalker on Tue May 09, 2017 5:12 am

He wants to meet the 1%..

He will just not in the way "he" wants for what he wants. "marketing" 101 ;)

They will met him, just a matter of time..... :-\
Last edited by windwalker on Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby junglist on Tue May 09, 2017 9:06 am

This is why I don't really like traditional systems.

Gain principles from a system then apply it in fighting. That's how it's done.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Steve James on Tue May 09, 2017 2:33 pm

Hey, the interview throws a different light on the thing between Xu and Li. The interesting thing was that he cited Hung gar and Wing Chun as effective traditional fighting systems -with the qualification that their training methods are outdated. But, to many, that's the problem. Those who use modern training methods or preparing for contemporary style competitions are said to have abandoned their traditional arts. He was right that the tcc guy fought no better than an average untrained fighter --and yeah, we know plenty with no training who just fight.

Anyway, too bad he didn't put xingyi or bagua in the effective group.

I wonder whether this will be good for tcma or mas in general. I think fighters will always have a sport and venue.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Taste of Death on Tue May 09, 2017 3:20 pm

Wang Xiang Zhai on the martial effectiveness of taiji:
For health preservation, it restrains the spirit and mettle, and brings discomfort to the practitioner. For combat, it harms the practitioner’s limbs and trunk, and causes the useful body to become a mechanical and stiff thing, it also disturbs the student’s nerves, and is nothing more than wasting one’s time. As for its method of training, a punch with a fist here, a slap with the palm there, a kick to the left, and another one to the right, that is pitiful and laughable.

As for dealing with an enemy in a fight, against a master-hand, please do not even consider it, if the adversary is not stiff and sluggish, even the famous masters of this boxing have no chance to apply their skills. These abuses are so big that ‘Taijiquan’ might soon become just a mere form comparable to a chess manual. For the last twenty years, most people who have studied this boxing have not been able to differentiate right and wrong, even if someone has been able to differentiate them, he has not been capable of putting it into practice. As for common students, most of them use their ears instead of their eyes.

So ruined is this boxing that it has become useless, this is really deplorable. I wish that the powerful members of this school would promptly and strictly clean it up, and attempt to develop it in the future. When the day of success comes, they will be held as the bosom friends of all the boxing fans. I dare to say that I understand ‘Taijiquan’ deeply, those who do not agree, can notify me or lay the blame on me, only the wise ones might understand. At the same time, I suppose those who have really gained something in their study of ‘Taijiquan’, when they read this, they will nod in agreement and cannot help laughing.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby windwalker on Tue May 09, 2017 3:31 pm

Wang Xiang Zhai on the martial effectiveness of taiji:


Read some of his work long ago...
I feel a lot of the changes he mentions happened when PH was turned into a competitive event.
IMO its been very bad for the development and sustainment of the art if used in a combative way.
Used as a way to teach different ideas and concepts its a very good medium to work with...something
that it seems to have gotten away from in favor of the competitive venues...
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Trick on Wed May 10, 2017 3:31 am

windwalker wrote:
Wang Xiang Zhai on the martial effectiveness of taiji:


Read some of his work long ago...
I feel a lot of the changes he mentions happened when PH was turned into a competitive event.
IMO its been very bad for the development and sustainment of the art if used in a combative way.
Used as a way to teach different ideas and concepts its a very good medium to work with...something
that it seems to have gotten away from in favor of the competitive venues...

I think the "problem" started when PH turned from formless and free to PH form as in TJQ"with hands/arms move in a specific pattern". I hate "traditional" TJQ PH, my mind becomes zombie like during such practice, with free/formless PH my mind stay alert.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby windwalker on Wed May 10, 2017 4:09 am

I think the "problem" started when PH turned from formless and free to PH form as in TJQ"with hands/arms move in a specific pattern". I hate "traditional" TJQ PH, my mind becomes zombie like during such practice, with free/formless PH my mind stay alert.


As I mentioned different people have different understanding of push hands, what its used for and why....Form or Formless its the same.
My reference was in that some feeling its some kind of sportive combative exercise have essentially made a training practice into "the"
practice. Understand this but do not agree with it. Others might find differently

Just wanted to make my post a little more clear.

As an example in hop gar, they have what are called plum blossom post,,,stumps in put into the ground in a pattern designed to improve foot work and stepping that people practice on. The stumps can be different heights, in some cases falling off or missing a place to step, not a good idea. :o

The idea is to understand balance, timing, and stepping....this can be practiced alone or with a partner actively using movements against each other.
In practice its thought by such practices ones foot work, and stepping become more stable and quick...
Its never been made into a competitive event
as far as I know....
Last edited by windwalker on Wed May 10, 2017 4:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby marvin8 on Wed May 10, 2017 8:14 am

Trip wrote:But, I can offer a way for you to maybe see,
or to possibly get an idea of how RollBack could have been used in a real fight.

This is in no way a perfect illustration of Rollback.
or where it could be used.

I only offer it because you badgered the shit out of me. :)

No. I replied only after you whined :'( of me not using your words, taking them out of context and implying something else, which I replied back I wasn’t. :)

In the Xu vs Taiji video, the Taiji teacher continued to keep his arms extended, as if he were trying to grab or stop the punches, leaving his head straight up and exposed. It appears the Taiji teacher didn't have enough time to do what he wanted, under the barrage of punches.

In addition to what you and wayne mentioned about your description of rollback, I thought the following demonstration was good. It showed setting up, waiting for the opportunities, had some movement and a couple variations. A better way to practice the movement may be in light sparring, as in the previous video I posted.

Published on Nov 7, 2015
Part 1 of a discussion of various applications relating to this sequence in the Chen Pan Ling taijiquan long form. From the Academy of Traditional Fighting Arts (see http://www.tfaperth.com):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBIbLSJurBs

Published on Nov 7, 2015
Part 2 of a discussion of various applications relating to this sequence in the Chen Pan Ling taijiquan long form. From the Academy of Traditional Fighting Arts (see http://www.tfaperth.com):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxfOctXS2m8
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby Greg J on Thu May 11, 2017 8:11 am



At 2:20 Jesse gets to the heart of the issue.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby windwalker on Thu May 11, 2017 8:20 am

marvin8 wrote:
Trip wrote:But, I can offer a way for you to maybe see,
or to possibly get an idea of how RollBack could have been used in a real fight.

This is in no way a perfect illustration of Rollback.
or where it could be used.

I only offer it because you badgered the shit out of me. :)

No. I replied only after you whined :'( of me not using your words, taking them out of context and implying something else, which I replied back I wasn’t. :)

In the Xu vs Taiji video, the Taiji teacher continued to keep his arms extended, as if he were trying to grab or stop the punches, leaving his head straight up and exposed. It appears the Taiji teacher didn't have enough time to do what he wanted, under the barrage of punches.

In addition to what you and wayne mentioned about your description of rollback, I thought the following demonstration was good. It showed setting up, waiting for the opportunities, had some movement and a couple variations. A better way to practice the movement may be in light sparring, as in the previous video I posted.

Published on Nov 7, 2015
Part 1 of a discussion of various applications relating to this sequence in the Chen Pan Ling taijiquan long form. From the Academy of Traditional Fighting Arts (see http://www.tfaperth.com):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBIbLSJurBs

Published on Nov 7, 2015
Part 2 of a discussion of various applications relating to this sequence in the Chen Pan Ling taijiquan long form. From the Academy of Traditional Fighting Arts (see http://www.tfaperth.com):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxfOctXS2m8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjrKxXVBbmA


A little different idea than the clips shown.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu May 11, 2017 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji teacher KO'ed by MMA

Postby RobP3 on Thu May 11, 2017 8:32 am

marvin8 wrote:Part 1 of a discussion of various applications relating to this sequence in the Chen Pan Ling taijiquan long form. From the Academy of Traditional Fighting Arts (see http://www.tfaperth.com):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBIbLSJurBs



Stuff like this is part of the problem, IMHO
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