Vlad the Impaler

[GrahamB]

Thanks to RobP this clip showed up in my feeds. I thought it was pretty cool.

Also note the "The purpose of this drill is..." audio - they're learning how to survive on the Internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paOMAua2PlM

[C.J.W.]

A sensitivity drill? Ok.

For real knife defense? Suicidal.

I'm not a fan of any knife defense techniques that allow the blade to get too close (or even rest on) the body while attempting to control, trap, and disarm.

Actual knife attacks often involve rapid and successive thrusts, so the broken-rhythm, staccato-type of energy makes that sort of flowing technique almost impossible to pull off. If one thrust misses, rather than keeping the blade on you, they'd simply pull back and stab again from a different angle, making the attack highly unpredictable and hard to handle.

[GrahamB]

I take it you didn't listen to the audio?

[RobP3]

A sensitivity drill? Ok.

For real knife defense? Suicidal.

That's why it's explained as a sensitivity drill. You may also have missed that it's a drill for the knife holder too, when someone grabs your knife arm.

I'm just back from a week at Vlad's, it's a very interesting school to train at. Many of the guys there have serious backgrounds, believe me they are well aware of what happens in "real life." As far as the internet thing goes - they laugh about it. As long as everyone doing the drill understands the context and there are follow on drills that add those attributes developed into the full work, everyone (in class) understands what is going on. They will respect anyone who turns up to try, test or give it a go, but other than that they give very little energy to internet discussions

I had one of my own clips put up on Dumbass Martial Arts recently. Interestingly, he edited out the drill explanation at the start, which explained what was going on, added his own music and put his own logo on it. I had it taken down, on copyright grounds. Got no problem if people want to share a clip of mine, but share the complete thing!

Just one other point on letting the knife get close to the body. Sometimes you don't have a choice, you may not even see the knife. On those occasions being relaxed / free to move is good damage limitation if nothing else
cheers

[GrahamB]

Vlad also appears to have a ball hidden in his chest that he can move around at will

[RobP3]

Vlad also appears to have a ball hidden in his chest that he can move around at will

Lol, he is even older than me yet is increasingly free and flexible in his movement. I did some fast groundwork with him last week, man that was scary

[Strange]

"this exercise is good...move the lungs..."

coming from a caucasian/slav face, it becomes sooo much less hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo;
sooo much more scientific and convincing, don't you think

[C.J.W.]

I take it you didn't listen to the audio?

The female voice in the background: "The objective of this exercise is...don't allow your partner to cut you."

At .39, Vlad says, "The idea...it's just direction. So you want to see if you can work with him with relaxation. If he wants to cut me, I control him like this [bends back to avoid the knife moving towards face and then use chest to bend and trap the wrist]."



Sounds and looks like they are teaching a knife defense exercise to me.

[C.J.W.]

I'm just back from a week at Vlad's, it's a very interesting school to train at. Many of the guys there have serious backgrounds, believe me they are well aware of what happens in "real life." As far as the internet thing goes - they laugh about it. As long as everyone doing the drill understands the context and there are follow on drills that add those attributes developed into the full work, everyone (in class) understands what is going on. They will respect anyone who turns up to try, test or give it a go, but other than that they give very little energy to internet discussions

To me, Systema is the Russian equivalent to Chinese Taiji, as both arts center around softness and relaxation. Its partner training exercises and applications are also reminiscent of Taiji PH in that they both involve sticking, following, and neutralizing.

So is it an art that has valuable things to offer? Yes. And I have no doubt that there are experienced fighters and MAists out there who would want to add Systema to their arsenals.

But like Taiji, I personally view Systema as an advanced form of combat that may not be too well-suited for laymen with no prior experience in other styles of fighting arts or real-world violence. Just as Taiji practitioners who focus too much on cooperative PH often end up losing touch with the realities of combat, I must say I have seen a similar pattern emerging in Systema.

[phil b]

I must admit that I don't get Systema. That said, I have never tried it, so I don't really have an opinion on it. I can see how others may get completely the wrong end of the stick watching something like this, but that's true of pretty much any drill from any art.

[Fubo]

For the time I trained Systema, I found the focus on sensitivity, the freedom to explore creatively and the "soft sparring" to be really valuable. I trained for about a year before moving countries which put an end to it, but I had a good number of years in Taiji before starting Systema and found that the structured practice of form, Zhan Zhuang, push hands and applications made for a great compliment to the much freer training. I also noticed that the instructors I met that were good at it had long backgrounds in other arts. My instructor at the time had 10 years in Indonesian arts, and other instructors I met had trained Japanese systems for a long time. I'm not trying to imply that Systema can't take an absolute beginner and turn them into functional fighters, just that it seemed like people with previous experience managed to take advantage of Systema's training paradigm to a greater extent. But my experience in it is limited, so it would be interesting to hear Rob's or any other experienced Systema practitioners views on people coming to the system with and without pre joys experience, and how they developed.

[middleway]

I must admit that I don't get Systema. That said, I have never tried it, so I don't really have an opinion on it. I can see how others may get completely the wrong end of the stick watching something like this, but that's true of pretty much any drill from any art.

I had the opportunity to train with Mikhail, Vladimir and Rob a couple of times back in the mid 2000's. Systema is a very useful system IMO and very fun! Some of the work goes off into coockie areas but thats true of alot of things.

Aside from that Vladimir is top 3 martial artists i have ever met. Extremely high level of skill and the best movement of anyone i have seen or met.

[RobP3]

"this exercise is good...move the lungs..."

coming from a caucasian/slav face, it becomes sooo much less hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo;
sooo much more scientific and convincing, don't you think

"Lungs" is hardly obscure terminology
What people are convinced by are the results. While out there last week I was speaking to a military vet with extreme PTSD. He told me how the breathwork Vladimir showed him had a profound beneficial effect, so much so he is now involved in working with other vets.
The Soviets invested a lot in many types of research, the science is all there, in the background. For the military guys, such as Vlad, though, I suspect it is more about "does this work"

[RobP3]

I take it you didn't listen to the audio?

The female voice in the background: "The objective of this exercise is...don't allow your partner to cut you."

At .39, Vlad says, "The idea...it's just direction. So you want to see if you can work with him with relaxation. If he wants to cut me, I control him like this [bends back to avoid the knife moving towards face and then use chest to bend and trap the wrist]."

Sounds and looks like they are teaching a knife defense exercise to me.

Yes, it is one particular aspect of knife defence, but not a "complete" one, so it is not addressing stabby stabby as you put in your other post. I sometimes describe this as taking one particular second in a situation and "looping it", so people get a chance to work on responses to that one thing. Later on you can put all those "seconds" together and work a full simulation or scenario.

[RobP3]

For the time I trained Systema, I found the focus on sensitivity, the freedom to explore creatively and the "soft sparring" to be really valuable. I trained for about a year before moving countries which put an end to it, but I had a good number of years in Taiji before starting Systema and found that the structured practice of form, Zhan Zhuang, push hands and applications made for a great compliment to the much freer training. I also noticed that the instructors I met that were good at it had long backgrounds in other arts. My instructor at the time had 10 years in Indonesian arts, and other instructors I met had trained Japanese systems for a long time. I'm not trying to imply that Systema can't take an absolute beginner and turn them into functional fighters, just that it seemed like people with previous experience managed to take advantage of Systema's training paradigm to a greater extent. But my experience in it is limited, so it would be interesting to hear Rob's or any other experienced Systema practitioners views on people coming to the system with and without pre joys experience, and how they developed.

It's swings and roundabouts - previous experience can help with some things, it can also bring bad habits. Complete newbs may have no skills, but they are a blank slate. I have a few guys with no previous, after a while I find there is not much difference between them and the guys with backgrounds. It's very much an individual thing though, the better that people can absorb the freedom of movement then the quicker they progress. Having technique and skills can be a good thing, but they can also sometimes impeded our progress as we cling to them when some other way may be more efficient.
For example I found myself constantly trying to apply "root" at first, so going to the ground and some aspects of mobility were a struggle. However my tactile sensitivity was ok, so that blended in nicely.
We all come to training with some previous experience, martial art or not. In some cases it can be injury or trauma which need to be worked around