Taiwan martial arts demo

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Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby GrahamB on Mon May 08, 2017 1:53 am

Seriously, what is wrong with people????

https://www.facebook.com/wushu.soul/vid ... 057227249/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQI-VkdOu-E

(Watch out for the Chi shockwave at 5.30!)
Last edited by GrahamB on Mon May 08, 2017 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby wiesiek on Mon May 08, 2017 2:32 am

hehe,
nothing wrong,
you know, kinda of standard in the highest level TJ net demos...
but,
quite large part of the earth population is ready to pay for such crap.
joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby middleway on Mon May 08, 2017 2:39 am

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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby GrahamB on Mon May 08, 2017 2:56 am

Hang on, isn't windwalker in Taiwan? Maybe that's his group....
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 3:10 am

It's pretty simple I think.

When people practicing a martial art aren't into "fighting" they more or less dissapear down some rabbit hole or other as they have nowhere else to really go with it.
It'll be either too deadly, or not enough "real" like chi and internal damage, or "real" stylistically or staying true to some realz or other. I can relate to people wanting to explore certain elements of training besides the "sharp end", but depending on other factors it can become a slippery slope.

If you're into fighting or even SD you don't want other styles and systems to leave you behind or leave yourself vulnerable to new developments and the cultural zeitgeist of the day pertaining to MA. You rise to the level around you or you don't and stay behind and re take the year, sometimes perpetually, like forever.

I used to have dreams constantly for years that I was back at my school. I think because I realized too late how I messed up my opportunity and window for schooling and education.

Saying that it's worth noting there are folks who may not be into fighting much if at all. But they keep their feet on the ground about it and do what they do (well), maybe sticking to their strengths if they are "into it". And they don't pretend other things by buying into some folklore or other, including expectations not met. I respect them as much as anyone.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 3:30 am, edited 7 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby phil b on Mon May 08, 2017 3:16 am

GrahamB wrote:Seriously, what is wrong with people????

https://www.facebook.com/wushu.soul/vid ... 057227249/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQI-VkdOu-E

(Watch out for the Chi shockwave at 5.30!)


More embarrassing reasons for TCMA to hang its head in shame!
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Mon May 08, 2017 4:09 am

GrahamB wrote:Hang on, isn't windwalker in Taiwan? Maybe that's his group....


No not my group,,,actually what I've been doing here is kind of a proof of concept.
The few people I've worked with, one of them wrote up a review.
I don't think he would mind me sharing part of it here.

Learning Taichi in English and using physics is a unique experience for me. I always think that Taichi should be explainable by science. However, because my limited skill and prejudice from my Chinese background, I was not able to explain it using my own knowledge. Working with you verifies my conjectures about Taichi


He a phd level robotics professor with many yrs in taiji. Quite interesting as he deals with control systems and movement dynamics.

The approach I use in looking at demos like the one shown, is to approach it from a physics perspective within my own skill level.
In looking at the demo I see nothing I have not felt, a lot of it is the same or similar to what I can do and what those I work with come to understand the how and why it works.

In Taiwan...many people have high tech engineering back grounds in different fields.
However due some the cultural biases they may or may not be able to approach a cultural practice it in the same way as they would with an engineering problem. I very much respect this and use it to align and show another way of looking at it along with practical hands that allows them to feel and see how its done or could be done that follows what is said within its own narrative expressed using a different one. Having said this there are aspects that may not be explainable using another way other then what is said reflecting the culture its from.

A little bit surprised by some of the reactions more so from those I though I've come to know off line..
What it can be used for or how its used depends on the intent of the practice....
The first part is building and understanding the skill sets.

Its not a matter of going down some rabbit hole as some seem to suggest...It is a matter of being very clear in
what one is looking for and taking an honest approach of self inquiry.

Why the need to compare and degenerate others practices I never quite get.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 08, 2017 6:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 4:18 am

What we see in this clip - what can it be used for?


In MA
It's either training skill/ technique/ attribute development or something you can use directly to defend yourself/ fight with.

I see the former in the clip, unfortunately without directly applying it to fighting the training is only good for the development drills themselves.
People then confuse that with expactations of fighting.

David, we're friends.
But you need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to this subject. It's all very well until fists start flying..

I have no problem with the practice itself - I'm open minded about benefits thereof, I just call it as I see it.
In of themselves fight training they are not. And without those people should not be makiing out it's "martial arts" as it relates to fighting and self protection.
Better to treat it like martial experimentation or martial exercise or *something*.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Mon May 08, 2017 4:34 am

cloudz wrote:What we see in this clip - what can it be used for?

David, we're friends.
But you need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to this subject. It's all very well until fists start flying..
I have no problem with the practice itself - I'm open minded about benefits thereof, I just call it as I see it.


Hope the friends part always remains so,,, ;)

The suggestion about the "wake up part" really?
would not expect this....

The problem is that really you dont "see it" as evidenced by
"what can it be used for" question.

If one can not see this, really there's not real point in explaining or pointing it out..

In taiji its said the highest level is said to be "understanding force" how one uses this understanding
is up to them, the first part which a lot of people spend time on is just getting the "understanding"

This shows some of the what the others demo in practical usage..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09aSvH8em8c

taken from another thread...

Mike one of my earliest teachers in CMA did the first interview with the first wushu troupe to come over from China.
One of the guys was famous for braking huge granite slabs. Mike being the skeptic that he is, "with an open mind" was amazed when he took the teacher
down to the ocean beach, the guy asked him to point to any rock..after which he would break it...with his fingers
Image
Members of the original Beijing Wushu Team
Can you find Jet Li in there?

http://focusingemptiness.com/index.php/ ... WhiteCrane
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 08, 2017 4:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 4:37 am

I think there's also a cultural thing going on.

Most Westerners would get embarrassed being part of that kind of "show" sooner or later. I know I would anyway..
We've had our share of that sort of thing. I think it can depend what and how much the community puts up with.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 4:42 am

windwalker wrote:
cloudz wrote:What we see in this clip - what can it be used for?

David, we're friends.
But you need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to this subject. It's all very well until fists start flying..
I have no problem with the practice itself - I'm open minded about benefits thereof, I just call it as I see it.


Hope the friends part always remains so,,, ;)

The problem is that really you dont "see it" as evidenced by
"what can it be used for" question.

If one can not see this, really there's not real point in explaining or pointing it out..

In taiji its said the highest level is said to be "understanding force" how one uses this understanding
is up to them, the first part which a lot of people spend time on is just getting the "understanding"

This shows some of the what the others demo in practical usage..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09aSvH8em8c

taken from another thread...


Don't worry, friends is friends and this is trivial to me in comparison. In that I can disagree about certain things with you, and not let it effect our friendship.
I can totally get on board with Dong jin, undertsanding force and a lot of the training that goes into it. Even the funky looking stuff I can put up with, but only if there's a balance to whom and what I see.

It's really not fair to perpetuate and pass on toothless martial art; that's just how I personally feel about it. I won't and wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't make excuses for it.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Steve James on Mon May 08, 2017 6:09 am

One of the guys was famous for braking huge granite slabs. Mike being the skeptic that he is, "with an open mind" was amazed when he took the teacher
down to the ocean beach, the guy asked him to point to any rock..after which he would break it...with his fingers


I was at the first shows of the "Peking Wu Shu" troupe in the States. I also met the guy who broke granite slabs. At the Felt Forum in Madison Square Garden show, there were slabs of granite (if you know curb stones, that's what they were) on the stage, as well as pots of flat stones. We couldn't imagine what the slabs were for except for support. We went on stage between the break in performances and actually lifted them. I know they were real.

I don't recall the performer's name, but he was left-handed with thick leather arm bands. It was announced that he was a "qi master." He did some exercises, tightened his bands and began to break the stones with finger chops. Ah, but then he went to the slabs. Ok, we'd seen people break cinder and even concrete blocks on their chests with sledgehammers. Not this guy. He broke one with his head. He'd wrap his head, stand one of the slabs up, and then break it with a head butt. However he did it, it took a lot of training and was very impressive.

This was also the first exposure that many people had to Chen style. At all the performances, the announcer would point out that Chen style was the "real" tcc.

Btw, Jet Li was the boy doing the monkey staff. He was the youngest member of the troupe, and the left-handed qi master was the oldest.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 7:11 am

windwalker wrote:This shows some of the what the others demo in practical usage..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09aSvH8em8c


Mate, I like that clip just fine

But.

I must have missed the hopping and jumping around part of how he effected this opponent.
While he co-operated.. or didn't co-operate? hmm.
Call me crazy but if that OP demo showcased something also more like that clip eg. sparring/ fighting demo with some resistence in it as well as the training method;
I don't think anyone could really criticise the training method if it was articulated how why and when the hops and jumps are part of force neutralization.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby phil b on Mon May 08, 2017 7:19 am

windwalker wrote:Why the need to compare and degenerate others practices I never quite get.


Easy answer, because what is in that video is utter shite. There is nothing mystical about it. I have never met a teacher that can do that to me, an average student, and I have trained with good teachers. Why? Let me repeat, because it is utter shite. There is absolutely no credible use for pretending your limp armed teacher can produce chi blasts.

If you genuinely believe that this can be done, feel free to show me. I would happily let you try to use empty force on me. I live in Taipei, and though I have a pretty busy schedule (full time job and university classes) I would be more than happy to meet with you, if you come to town. I will even post a testimony, if you can prove that the woo woo nonsense presented in that video is simply me having a low level of understanding.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 7:35 am

windwalker wrote:The suggestion about the "wake up part" really?
would not expect this....


"wake up and smell the coffee" is a pretty well known phrase/ figure of speech.
What I meant by it is you can't expect the kind of training seen in the OP clip to offer much by way of fighting/ self defence ability in of itself.

I already know you don't think it's good enough. You have several times shown me the kind of KF training and practitioner who prepares themselves for fighting.
You trained with the guy, you post about him; so I think it's fair for me to assume you don't dispute that point.

If anyone thinks that kind of training by itself is enough to prepare people to defend themselves, a wake up call might be the most friendly thing one can offer.
Regardless what way it gets taken.

If they don't care about that or are not training for that - let that be known, then no one can complain about what they see if and when that happens.
But honestly, I think this is largely a cultural battle. In the end it's not my culture to defend, martial culture or otherwise.
I really wish more than anything that you didn't feel any need to defend the situation I'm trying to describe and in the videos like the OP, you shouldn't have to David.
They let you down, they let all of us down by not balancing the art with the science of kicking ass.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon May 08, 2017 7:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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