Taiwan martial arts demo

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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Tue May 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Thanks Tom for clarifying. Btw I like zhang's videos of his forms and none of this is a reflection on him or how he teaches. He sounds very chinese which is something I am very familiar with.

Having been to China a couple of times I have also been through similar experiences. No I dont expect you to be a bull in a china shop or to dismiss the oportunity to learn better basics or touch hands. It does sound like you have made up your mind on LKJ. Most likely for the same reasons most others have.

I am always curious and always happy to let people test on me. There have been 4 occasions of friendly testing and nothing happened. I didn't mind these and it did not take anything away from meeting nice fellows who wanted to see if it works on me. Even my previous sifu would do the arm waving-people swaying-falling over effects but would not bother with these on me. Instead he would do other things that would blow me away.

There have been a few others who would profess to the world they could shoot chi balls and then apply every trick in the book to avoid doing it on me. Their students would bounce around and claim near god like powers. At times these guys would even be rude to others and dismiss fighting ability as external and not having any real skill. These guys are frauds who are misdirecting people & giving cma a bad name.

So windy why would I want to prove anything wrong or right? Because I dont want to believe in something that is rubbish. Does chi exist? Sure - the term means something to me but I know I probably only get about 20% of what it means. But the 20% I get is because I understand it & how it can be used to learn better. I don't believe it is very smart to claim knowing chi and its use unless it is understood and tested.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Tue May 16, 2017 3:51 pm

Taste of Death wrote:I trained with a 62 year old African American police officer today with decades of martial arts experience including kenpo, small circle jujitsu, tkd and other arts. He said the two heaviest blows he's taken were a kick from a kenpo master and a punch from Sam Tam. The big difference between the two was Sam did not touch him. My taiji/xingyi sifu Henry Look had been on the receiving end of Professor and Madame Yu's lkj and I have kung fu brothers who have witnessed and been affected by Sam Tam's no touch punch. I have never felt or seen such a thing but I don't think the people I train with are lying.


Not trying to be a smart arse but it sounds like an example of this effect:



That said it might be something completely different. If it is this I think it is awesome that Sam has picked up on how to do it & hopefully passes it on to others so it does not pass away with him.

I have not felt anything that is no touch that floored me but I have felt zero distance punches that cut through me like butter, left no mark and hurt for a few days. After being hit like that I would thank them & even repeated the excercise a few months later because it helped me on my learning path.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Tue May 16, 2017 4:01 pm

dspyrido wrote:
So windy why would I want to prove anything wrong or right? Because I dont want to believe in something that is rubbish. Does chi exist? Sure - the term means something to me but I know I probably only get about 20% of what it means. But the 20% I get is because I understand it & how it can be used to learn better. I don't believe it is very smart to claim knowing chi and its use unless it is understood and tested.


My point was that the underpinnings of the process depends on things like concept of qi. I don't see how it's possible to accept one without accepting the other parts of it. I have tested my own understanding and abilities in this area.

I'm currently working with some professor s I know in Taiwan aligning the process and explanations with physics as much as possible.

I am sure that anybody who's worked in CMA for any length of time has felt things and seen things that there may be no real explanations for at this time.

I have heard all the reasons given by people who say it hasn't or doesn't work on them. I feel most of them I could explain the reasonings of why it didn't work. I think for most it would be something understandable given the process by which it's said to work.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue May 16, 2017 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Tue May 16, 2017 4:07 pm

In my view it's a small part of a much larger process but one that gets the most press. Sometimes misunderstood even by those who feel they have a high ability with it.

There are two parts one is to develop a skill the second is to understand how to use it, it's not the same.
A bad mistake to make for some who feel it is.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Tue May 16, 2017 11:25 pm

windwalker wrote:My point was that the underpinnings of the process depends on things like concept of qi. I don't see how it's possible to accept one without accepting the other parts of it. I have tested my own understanding and abilities in this area.


How have you tested it? Have you stood in front of many sport fighters (sanda, mma, boxing, kickboxing you name) and said "lets go for it"?

As for chi in the learning process for martial arts - I know many great fighters that would make mince meat of all instructors that I have met that spend a lot of time talking about chi in a class.

There are also a few ima instructors (native chinese) & very traditionally trained with real fight experience that barely touch on chi in their teachings. Without a doubt they would also tear apart the same guys who like to talk about chi.

The use of chi as a learning method is not required to be great fighting. In fact it is more of a hindrance for many because they are chasing a dream instead of concentrating on the basics, timing/distancing and technique. I like to think of it as something that is taken into consideration after the foundations have been put in place.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Tue May 16, 2017 11:51 pm

You mentioned qi how did you test it , what functions did it give you that you did not have without it
Last edited by windwalker on Wed May 17, 2017 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Thu May 18, 2017 3:56 am

windwalker wrote:You mentioned qi how did you test it , what functions did it give you that you did not have without it


Nice try but dont avoid the question.

I have stated the chi construct when considered with martial arts...

The use of chi as a learning method is not required to be great fighting. In fact it is more of a hindrance for many because they are chasing a dream instead of concentrating on the basics, timing/distancing and technique. I like to think of it as something that is taken into consideration after the foundations have been put in place.


You mentioned chi and then said

I have tested my own understanding and abilities in this area.


How have you test it to understand your own abilities? Are you even talking about martial arts or about something else?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby GrahamB on Thu May 18, 2017 4:02 am

"I do not think these people are lying, they are self-brainwashed", said Xu.
"When I argue with reality I lose, but only 100% of the time". Blogs: Tai Chi Notebook http://www.taichinotebook.wordpress.com BJJ Notebook: http://Bjjnotebook.com
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Thu May 18, 2017 4:41 am

"dspyrido"]
Nice try but dont avoid the question.

I have stated the chi construct when considered with martial arts...


yes and how did you test it, what did you do or could do using this.

The use of chi as a learning method is not required to be great fighting. In fact it is more of a hindrance for many because they are chasing a dream instead of concentrating on the basics, timing/distancing and technique. I like to think of it as something that is taken into consideration after the foundations have been put in place.


my point was and is that if one uses "qi" as part of what ever they do, this is the basic underlying concept by which many other aspects work and are said to work

Its not the use of qi as a learning method, its what it enables one to be able to do when this aspect is developed.
this reflects some of the training we did back in the day....David Chin met him, very cool guy,,,was one of Mikes, http://focusingemptiness.com/index.php/additional-photos#WhiteCrane teachers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUoJ9RkaQnw
How have you test it to understand your own abilities? Are you even talking about martial arts or about something else?


kind of depends on the style how its used...with things I used to do it enabled different type of palms,,,along with iron arm and some body conditioning.
With the things I do now its a little different. . About said all I can or will say on this....
I've found my own truth, others have theirs.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu May 18, 2017 8:06 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby dspyrido on Thu May 18, 2017 3:47 pm

windwalker wrote:my point was and is that if one uses "qi" as part of what ever they do, this is the basic underlying concept by which many other aspects work and are said to work

Its not the use of qi as a learning method, its what it enables one to be able to do when this aspect is developed.


(Human) Chi - a metaphorical construct used to abstractly describe many things ranging from air to life energy. So everything we do uses chi ...

As you said it's not a direct learning method. So ignore chi and get on with good learning methods and the (human) chi will flow better. So we are back to the point I made earlier - there are many good martial artists that dont care about chi becuase they focus on the practising learning methods that work.

To bring this back to the origjnal videos - are what they are doing a useful method for martial arts? I can understand a small facet for it's use in attuning awareness. If that is a small part in training then ok. But these guys are having a laugh or are plainly delusional.
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