Taiwan martial arts demo

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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Fatal Rose on Thu May 11, 2017 8:22 pm

Why is chi blasting even open for discussion? It's proven fake garbage!
https://youtu.be/dOOh2J1b3lQ
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Thu May 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Fatal Rose wrote:Why is chi blasting even open for discussion? It's proven fake garbage!
https://youtu.be/dOOh2J1b3lQ


quite correct, The comment could be applied to all CMA,
oops I mean only to those CMA styles/stylist its safe to apply it too.

can you post 1 clip, just 1 clip of CMA being used
as its practiced in a ring showing clear stylistic usage, as boxer
would tend to look like boxing, someone playing BJJ would tend to move and look
like they were doing BJJ...ect.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu May 11, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Fatal Rose on Fri May 12, 2017 12:02 am

windwalker wrote:
Fatal Rose wrote:Why is chi blasting even open for discussion? It's proven fake garbage!
https://youtu.be/dOOh2J1b3lQ


quite correct, The comment could be applied to all CMA,
oops I mean only to those CMA styles/stylist its safe to apply it too.

can you post 1 clip, just 1 clip of CMA being used
as its practiced in a ring showing clear stylistic usage, as boxer
would tend to look like boxing, someone playing BJJ would tend to move and look
like they were doing BJJ...ect.

https://youtu.be/IlU3b2hTXv4

Now this isn't perfect but at least it's something.

And what does this have to do with fake chi blasting nonsense?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby wiesiek on Fri May 12, 2017 12:06 am

..."Training for application of for being in a position to apply a technique is a separate matter. Arm bars (or qinna) work, check out Billy Robinson videos. But, you can't expect a resisting opponent to offer you a compromised position...."

from my experience , -even the most "exotic" techniques will work nicely, IF you catch the opportunity on the fly,
really easy to do , sometimes... - BUT one condition - it was trained zillion times before with the partner, not necessary in the long form :)
joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 12:48 am

wayne hansen wrote:
cloudz wrote:Great demo (which is also how you would train them) of TCMA techniques here. No theatrics necessary.





The shortcoming in this clip is the passive student
He never attacks or defends
The teacher circles and then takes his time to set up the Chinna and then applies it with force
Any person with no training can do theses throws with little instruction once the hold is setup


My suggestion was to have both co-operative and no co-operative work, so I' don't disagree on that score.
Why not throw some clips up Wayne, you have a class don't you. Getting proficient at a few techniques with co-operation doesn't take an age.
But there's no denying that you can see this gentlemans quality, some viewers may like to appreciate that - in this case.
I think there's always a place for refining your technique in this way, amongst others of course.
Last edited by cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
thanks,
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 1:28 am

Fatal Rose wrote:Now this isn't perfect but at least it's something.

And what does this have to do with fake chi blasting nonsense?


Because the same things could be and have been said of CMA, that its fake and never worked
there's a whole thread on it here it case you haven't noticed.

as to your example
let me help you with some training of styles I've worked with in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

One can see clear distinct stylistic movement and usage according to
the style.

note: it looks like chen style, do not practice Chen style others might comment on this,
covers many of the points that people bring out regarding cooperative or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 12, 2017 1:31 am

I only have a couple of students these days and they are not into being filmed
There is some stuff of me to be released after I check out
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Trick on Fri May 12, 2017 2:15 am

Fatal Rose wrote:Why is chi blasting even open for discussion? It's proven fake garbage!
https://youtu.be/dOOh2J1b3lQ

Didn't the TJQ master of the TJQ vs MMA fight say that most of the punches fired at him did not connected with his head ?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby cloudz on Fri May 12, 2017 2:51 am

wayne hansen wrote:I only have a couple of students these days and they are not into being filmed
There is some stuff of me to be released after I check out


No worries, I've posted clips as examples rather than anything I think definitive. So if you know any examples of what you like to see, that's all good too.
Shame you don't have more students to train up, I guess that comes with the territory.
thanks,
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 12, 2017 3:25 am

Tom wrote:
RobP3 wrote:[snip]Or at least in a demo I try and get the crowd involved in doing some exercises or something.You can't show "real fight" stuff, people either don't see what's going on or think you are a bully lol. People for the most part want to see some flashy entertainment


Oh yeah, there's nothing more flashy and exciting than watching slow press-ups and squats with heavy breathing. :o

:)


Precisely, better for people to do them, than watch. It's training, not entertainment :) If you want a cool fight scene, rent a movie :)
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Fatal Rose on Fri May 12, 2017 8:17 am

windwalker wrote:
Fatal Rose wrote:Now this isn't perfect but at least it's something.

And what does this have to do with fake chi blasting nonsense?


Because the same things could be and have been said of CMA, that its fake and never worked
there's a whole thread on it here it case you haven't noticed.

as to your example
let me help you with some training of styles I've worked with in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

One can see clear distinct stylistic movement and usage according to
the style.

note: it looks like chen style, do not practice Chen style others might comment on this,
covers many of the points that people bring out regarding cooperative or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc



What I mean is...

What does technique application have to do with fake Qi blasting no touch KO nonsense?
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Tom on Fri May 12, 2017 8:20 pm

Franklin wrote:but who does push hands with an 80 year old and sends him back 12 feet and into the dirt?


I do, apparently . . . :)

Sorry I missed your question earlier, Franklin. WW was there, and his follow-up post provided the context. As I mentioned before, I wanted to try to gauge Zhang's internal connection and coordination. I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with. So Zhang let me try different entries to set-ups for throws, slowly and very gradually increasing the pressure to reach the point of off-balancing (kuzushi in judo, not sure if shuai jiao has a similar term). He was very good, making quick and smooth and very subtle adaptations to changing vectors. We had a lot of fun and were both laughing, and then moved into a few minutes of light-contact free-form tuishou. One of Zhang's qualities that impressed me the most was his ability to make his arms feel like they had his whole bodyweight in them, something I've felt in some good grapplers and in the CMA world from Chen Xiang (a bajiquan adept as well as a taijiquan disciple of the late Feng Zhiqiang). In tuishou Zhang could deflect and slip past my arms, or simply do his heavy-arm thing to off-balance me. I reached a point where I stopped mentally trying to set up a sequence of moves and counters, and just got into feeling the flow. So I think I was more surprised than Zhang when I found my hands on his chest, and took a small step in with a very light push. He moved back and seemed to trip, stumbling back two or three steps further before sitting down into the dirt, rolling onto his lower back then getting up with a grin. I rushed over to help dust him off and he indicated that he was willing to do more. But I already felt I'd taken up more than my share of Zhang's time so I declined. I was very impressed with Zhang's level of gongfu and resilience (I fervently wished for some of that kind of resilience a few days later after some rough-and-tumble play with some Russians outside of a bellydancing bar in Chaoyang).

I guess if I hadn't been as surprised as I was making contact with Zhang's torso I might have been able to reach out to keep him from stumbling back. But the point of the anecdote was to underscore the resilience imparted by Zhang's level of gongfu to the vicissitudes of physical being, whether at the hands of a clumsy laowai or slipping in the shower.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Franklin on Fri May 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Tom wrote:
Franklin wrote:but who does push hands with an 80 year old and sends him back 12 feet and into the dirt?


I do, apparently . . . :)

Sorry I missed your question earlier, Franklin. WW was there, and his follow-up post provided the context. As I mentioned before, I wanted to try to gauge Zhang's internal connection and coordination. I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with. So Zhang let me try different entries to set-ups for throws, slowly and very gradually increasing the pressure to reach the point of off-balancing (kuzushi in judo, not sure if shuai jiao has a similar term). He was very good, making quick and smooth and very subtle adaptations to changing vectors. We had a lot of fun and were both laughing, and then moved into a few minutes of light-contact free-form tuishou. One of Zhang's qualities that impressed me the most was his ability to make his arms feel like they had his whole bodyweight in them, something I've felt in some good grapplers and in the CMA world from Chen Xiang (a bajiquan adept as well as a taijiquan disciple of the late Feng Zhiqiang). In tuishou Zhang could deflect and slip past my arms, or simply do his heavy-arm thing to off-balance me. I reached a point where I stopped mentally trying to set up a sequence of moves and counters, and just got into feeling the flow. So I think I was more surprised than Zhang when I found my hands on his chest, and took a small step in with a very light push. He moved back and seemed to trip, stumbling back two or three steps further before sitting down into the dirt, rolling onto his lower back then getting up with a grin. I rushed over to help dust him off and he indicated that he was willing to do more. But I already felt I'd taken up more than my share of Zhang's time so I declined. I was very impressed with Zhang's level of gongfu and resilience (I fervently wished for some of that kind of resilience a few days later after some rough-and-tumble play with some Russians outside of a bellydancing bar in Chaoyang).

I guess if I hadn't been as surprised as I was making contact with Zhang's torso I might have been able to reach out to keep him from stumbling back. But the point of the anecdote was to underscore the resilience imparted by Zhang's level of gongfu to the vicissitudes of physical being, whether at the hands of a clumsy laowai or slipping in the shower.




thanks for the context...
seems it was a fun time


without the context..
my mind was going back to when some of my teachers where in their 80's
every so often there would be someone who would ask the teacher something and then try to use excessive force or really muscle it....
(of course the teacher could transform it... )
but someone would usually step in if we saw this happening... (the person would usually change their tune when this happened)



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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 9:59 pm

"seems like it was a fun time"

It was, Tom, gave Zhang, shifu a lot of respect with his honest effort. Zhang, shifu was very happy in engaging with someone of skill, sincere in his effort to understand something.

He would often say " I am not a taiji theroist, I am a taiji practitioner" he was very hands on.

Over the years he's had all kinds of martial artist come to test his work. Many of them stayed​ making up the bulk of his students .
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 12, 2017 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiwan martial arts demo

Postby Tom on Sat May 13, 2017 10:55 am

Franklin wrote:
Tom wrote:
Franklin wrote:but who does push hands with an 80 year old and sends him back 12 feet and into the dirt?


I do, apparently . . . :)

Sorry I missed your question earlier, Franklin. WW was there, and his follow-up post provided the context. As I mentioned before, I wanted to try to gauge Zhang's internal connection and coordination. I wasn't particularly interested in the lin kong jin, but I like grappling, because I can sense certain things about the person I'm working with. So Zhang let me try different entries to set-ups for throws, slowly and very gradually increasing the pressure to reach the point of off-balancing (kuzushi in judo, not sure if shuai jiao has a similar term). He was very good, making quick and smooth and very subtle adaptations to changing vectors. We had a lot of fun and were both laughing, and then moved into a few minutes of light-contact free-form tuishou. One of Zhang's qualities that impressed me the most was his ability to make his arms feel like they had his whole bodyweight in them, something I've felt in some good grapplers and in the CMA world from Chen Xiang (a bajiquan adept as well as a taijiquan disciple of the late Feng Zhiqiang). In tuishou Zhang could deflect and slip past my arms, or simply do his heavy-arm thing to off-balance me. I reached a point where I stopped mentally trying to set up a sequence of moves and counters, and just got into feeling the flow. So I think I was more surprised than Zhang when I found my hands on his chest, and took a small step in with a very light push. He moved back and seemed to trip, stumbling back two or three steps further before sitting down into the dirt, rolling onto his lower back then getting up with a grin. I rushed over to help dust him off and he indicated that he was willing to do more. But I already felt I'd taken up more than my share of Zhang's time so I declined. I was very impressed with Zhang's level of gongfu and resilience (I fervently wished for some of that kind of resilience a few days later after some rough-and-tumble play with some Russians outside of a bellydancing bar in Chaoyang).

I guess if I hadn't been as surprised as I was making contact with Zhang's torso I might have been able to reach out to keep him from stumbling back. But the point of the anecdote was to underscore the resilience imparted by Zhang's level of gongfu to the vicissitudes of physical being, whether at the hands of a clumsy laowai or slipping in the shower.




thanks for the context...
seems it was a fun time


without the context..
my mind was going back to when some of my teachers where in their 80's
every so often there would be someone who would ask the teacher something and then try to use excessive force or really muscle it....
(of course the teacher could transform it... )
but someone would usually step in if we saw this happening... (the person would usually change their tune when this happened)



Franklin


Among the 8-10 students watching there was a police officer my size with some nice Chen taiji qinna skill and a 6-foot 7-inch PLA soldier. Zhang was well cared for.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

---Vernon Law
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